Malicious "pimping" in nursing / nurse practitioner school?

Nurses General Nursing

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I have been investigating both advanced practice nursing and medical training, and I get a bad feeling about medical training. I've mentioned attitude problems I've caught from doctors and medical students before, but now it's time to address one specific topic.

They say that in medical school, "pimping" is a common thing. Apparently there are two main types, each of which begins with a medical practitioner who is serving in the capacity of an instructor firing off a series of questions at a student or resident. The "beneficial" type is where the questions are legitimately related to something the student or resident should know because he/she will need to use it in practice, and if the student / resident gets to the point of saying "I don't know", the instructor will tell the student to look it up and perhaps do a brief presentation on it the next day they're together.

For the record, I consider this entirely acceptable. I teach (though not in a school) and I do the same thing to my students sometimes.

The second type is "malicious", where the point of the questioning is to humiliate and embarrass the student. As I've read, the questioning may or may not deal with relevant topics, but in either case when the student / resident reaches that "I don't know" point, the instructor will mock the person in front of his/her peers for not having that knowledge.

What makes it worse is that they seem to think that this is acceptable practice and that people should not rise up to stop it. (I suggested that they could rise up en masse to stop it if they wanted to, and some of them mocked me for that!!) Personally, I see no benefit in the mocking / humiliation / whatever you'd call it, because all that does is bring people down with no counterbalancing benefit.

So my question is: In nursing education, considering all levels from LPN up to DNP, how prevalent is the "malicious" form of "pimping"? And, if it happens at all, what is the likelihood of retaliation against someone who either returns fire at that moment (so as to save face if nothing else) or reports the abuse to the administration of the school or facility?

I get that, but that's what the medical community calls it. If y'all have a different term for it, that's fine, because all I really care about is figuring out how common it is for instructors to mock student nurses / NPs for what they don't know. After all, nobody is born knowing this stuff, so we all started out not knowing it.

What degree of malicious pimping being common is acceptable for you?

Specializes in Family Nurse Practitioner.

As a nursing student (who diligently did her reading and homework) I found that I did not respond well to what I called the "question-the-student-down" style of instruction. I have a relational/associative learning style that does not lend itself well to memorization and ready regurgitation of book-learned facts and sound-bites. I often found it challenging to follow the instructor's chain of logic, and I was consistently unable to pop off the "right answer" during rapid-fire question sessions. Yes, this created some awkward and uncomfortable moments until the instructor got to know me.

I always made sure I demonstrated in other ways that I was competent, safe, and able to retain and apply classroom information. I did this by asking intelligent questions, providing thoughtful answers in assignments and online discussions, doing well in clinicals, and making good grades on tests. Over time, it all worked out: I passed the NCLEX, graduated with an MSN, passed national boards for FNP, and have been successful in real-world practice.

Now that I'm an instructor in an NP program, I choose not to use a rapid-fire questioning style of instruction, although I do suggest that students look things up whenever I see they need to do so. I have found that a more discussion-oriented approach based on "What would you do for this patient and why?" builds rapport with students and supports their ability to embody the art part of nursing that I believe is so desperately needed in an increasingly impersonal world. Best of all, it helps the students figure out for themselves what the weak links are in their learning, and I believe they'll study harder when they discover these things for themselves than when they get shamed into it.

As many of the previous comments have indicated, you'll encounter bullies in all roles, and in all professions. You won't love every class you take or every instructor you have, but if you do the work and pass the tests, you'll graduate safe to practice. The best advice I can offer is this: Choose your educational path based on your own desires and goals for how you want to be able to help others when your education is complete. That way, your internal motivation will help you withstand any bumps in the road the bullies might put in your path.

Specializes in Emergency, Telemetry, Transplant.
I think I would describe it more as "hazing" than "bullying".

I love that we are debating the best pejorative to use for this.

And here I was thinking when I read the title of the thread that was a way for school administrators to earn a few extra bucks. :saint:

Specializes in Cardiac Telemetry, ICU.

I never saw it happen in nursing school. Not once. Our director had no patience for bullying of any kind. Now that I've graduated, I'm actually friends with most of my professors on Facebook.

No matter where you go, there are some narcissists and antisocials. Funny how I eventually found my way to Psych.......

My D is in law school. They use the Socratic method of teaching, which employs very very tough questioning of students. I wouldn't call it "pimping," but it can be pretty brutal. When they are called on, they must stand or even come down to the front of the classroom to be grilled. It can be excruciatingly painful. But it is considered to be essential training for lawyers, who must be able to think very quickly on their feet. You do your client zero good if you don't think of the objection within seconds.

My D does really well with this, in part because she had several law classes as an undergrad which employed these techniques. She had already crashed and burned (and also experienced the euphoria of hitting it out of the ballpark) before she ever got to law school, so she was more prepared than most.

What this method also does is increase the probability that everyone who walks through that door is as prepared as they possibly can be. The incentive might well not be the same if they didn't know that at any time they could be put to the test in front of everyone.

NO ONE in the "medical.community" uses the word pimping in this manner.

Oh...yes they do. :)

And it is exactly as the OP described.

Go ahead and ask any and every doctor with whom you have contact. Every one of them will have experienced it or at the very least will know of it.

ETA: on second thought perhaps that use could be regional - but it's something that's widely known in large circles such as the interwebs, so I kind of doubt it.

Well as a muscular guy I totally plan on pimping myself out in nursing school and as a nurse!

I will take Starbucks cards in exchange for help with patient lifts and turns, and any other heavy lifting. #WillLiftForEspresso

:roflmao: :yes:

Oh...yes they do. :)

And it is exactly as the OP described.

Go ahead and ask any and every doctor with whom you have contact. Every one of them will have experienced it or at the very least will know of it.

ETA: on second thought perhaps that use could be regional - but it's something that's widely known in large circles such as the interwebs, so I kind of doubt it.

I think I just learned that I can't multi-quote in here.

When I said the "medical community", I chose that term so that nobody would think that I find there to be an unpalatable difference between nurses and doctors. I had never heard of "pimping" in nursing, but it's all over the place when talking about medical school. Nurses and doctors all work in the medical field, so they're all on the same team even if they have different roles.

So, since a lot of people had no idea what I was talking about, I guess I got my answer. (I'm glad that some of y'all did know what I meant, though. At least that showed the others that I'm not a total yahoo.) To be clear: I don't mind strict instructors. They're not bad people. Of the three professors I had in my last round of classes, I would call one "strict". This guy wouldn't let you get away with anything. No handing in work late, no extra credit, and he wouldn't answer your question if it could be found in the syllabus or assignment instructions. I did my best to fulfill the obligations of the class and I walked away with a high "A", plenty of pleasant exchanges with him, and his willingness to write me recommendations. I can handle strict instructors and strict questions, but that's because I can tell when someone is trying to educate me and when someone is trying to belittle me. I think my students would tell anyone that I miss nothing and I never let anything slide, but at the same time I show them respect and never belittle them for the mistakes they make... even if it's intentional laziness that is repeated ad nauseam.

I do agree that "pimping" seems more like hazing. I even asked, once, on the forum where people talk about medical school and becoming doctors, if the reason why I was being attacked by so many people for my innocuous questions was because I was being hazed. When I questioned them about why "pimping" is allowed to continue and what benefit it has for the student's education, their radio silence proved my point that it isn't. So, yes, the fact that it is supported and accepted even still means that it is essentially hazing.

And I have never been in favor of hazing. If you have to deal with unnecessary and harmful BS in order to get into their club, I'm the kind of person to walk the other way. I've never wanted to be in anyone's club that badly. So, from this angle anyway, it seems that I'm more cut out for nursing than medical school.

Which is perfectly fine by me.

A lot of people are getting hung up on the terminology here.

A lot of people my age, 20s, have heard it used in this context. ALL of my med school friends refer to this type of questioning as pimping. It's not THAT uncommon or bizarre.

Specializes in Geriatrics, Home Health.
Oh NO you didn't!!! Mentioning NETY is like screaming "Beetlejuice" three times!!!

:dead:

And now, another exciting round of "every nurse younger and/or less experienced than me is a spoiled entitled snowflake."

Specializes in Psych (25 years), Medical (15 years).
Well as a muscular guy I totally plan on pimping myself out in nursing school

Hey- it pays the bills.

Many Nursing Students have to work to pay their way through Nursing School, as did I.

Here's photograph of me, taken in the late '80's, working, exhibiting my wares, outside the community college entrance:

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