Malicious "pimping" in nursing / nurse practitioner school?

[RomaniGypsy]

I have been investigating both advanced practice nursing and medical training, and I get a bad feeling about medical training. I've mentioned attitude problems I've caught from doctors and medical students before, but now it's time to address one specific topic.

They say that in medical school, "pimping" is a common thing. Apparently there are two main types, each of which begins with a medical practitioner who is serving in the capacity of an instructor firing off a series of questions at a student or resident. The "beneficial" type is where the questions are legitimately related to something the student or resident should know because he/she will need to use it in practice, and if the student / resident gets to the point of saying "I don't know", the instructor will tell the student to look it up and perhaps do a brief presentation on it the next day they're together.

For the record, I consider this entirely acceptable. I teach (though not in a school) and I do the same thing to my students sometimes.

The second type is "malicious", where the point of the questioning is to humiliate and embarrass the student. As I've read, the questioning may or may not deal with relevant topics, but in either case when the student / resident reaches that "I don't know" point, the instructor will mock the person in front of his/her peers for not having that knowledge.

What makes it worse is that they seem to think that this is acceptable practice and that people should not rise up to stop it. (I suggested that they could rise up en masse to stop it if they wanted to, and some of them mocked me for that!!) Personally, I see no benefit in the mocking / humiliation / whatever you'd call it, because all that does is bring people down with no counterbalancing benefit.

So my question is: In nursing education, considering all levels from LPN up to DNP, how prevalent is the "malicious" form of "pimping"? And, if it happens at all, what is the likelihood of retaliation against someone who either returns fire at that moment (so as to save face if nothing else) or reports the abuse to the administration of the school or facility?

[psu_213, BSN, RN]

I have never seen it happen in nursing schools. I have worked in teaching hospitals almost all of my career as an RN. I've seen medical students, interns, residents, fellows, etc., asked tough questions. In 10+ years as a nurse, with nursing school before that, I have never seen people belittled for not knowing the answer(s). Pretty much the only times I have seen belittling happen were on ER and House.

I'm sure it happens somewhere, but I'm guessing it is far more the exception than then rule.

[Oldmahubbard]

This happened on my first RN job. An RN used to followed me on the next shift and I had to give her report. She would ask me ridiculous questions on a regular basis, often something about an obscure lab result. Not hemoglobin or potassium, labs that are well beyond the scope of RN practice.

I finally left. I called it bullying, because that was the obvious intent.

[amzyRN]

There are references to it in medical training Pimping in Medical Education: Lacking Evidence and Under Threat | Medical Education and Training | JAMA | JAMA Network. I haven't heard of this used commonly in nursing education. But in one experience I had in nursing school, I was grilled by a doctor to the level of humiliation, which is how I felt in the moment. He asked questions and grilled me in public and later told me privately that this was called "pimping". I looked it up later and found out what it was. This did not add to my learning experience and only made me feel more afraid to ask MDs questions. I think some of the "old-school" doctors are more likely to do this to med students, nursing students, and even new RNs.

There was another time I was humiliated by a nursing instructor because I didn't know the mechanism of a medication I was going to administer. I knew what it was for but not how it worked. In retrospect, I should have pulled out my medication book and looked it up and told her. And yes there are meds that you need to know how they work and I always knew them after that. Anyway, this was worse than the MD and did actually bring me to tears. This was the exception though, not the rule and my experiences were mostly positive in nursing school (for my BSN). These experience also did not break me.

What I would recommend is being a good student and being able to handle appropriately tough questions. If you don't know the answer, you can calmly state that you are uncertain and ask for an explanation. You can also calmly ask them in the moment if you were grilled or personally attacked that they stop because it's not helpful for your learning. That would put them on the spot. I wouldn't let that deter you from obtaining your NP. Everyone starts from the novice stage in their education and no one knows or can know everything. That is a fact. There are things a student should know by studying them and if you are a good student and do your best I don't think you should have any problems. You should also be able to handle the nasty people in the world because they are everywhere and be able to operate in the real world as an NP if that is your goal. Developing the skill to handle rude offensive and even abusive co-workers and patients is necessary, unfortunately.

[meanmaryjean, DNP, RN]

I am dumbfounded that the word is used to describe bullying..

Smh

[CBlover, BSN, RN]

NO ONE in the "medical.community" uses the word pimping in this manner.

Exactly. You're on ALL NURSES ... none of us have heard of this okay?..and we're in the medical community. THIS IS A medical community in best literal terms. lol

[cleback]

I think it's med school slang. There's also being a "gunner" which is an over achiever/know it all. You can find it on discussion boards for med students. personally I think med school slang is pretty silly. It describes pretty ordinary things.... well, maybe not ordinary but definitely not unique to medicine... it kind of reflects on mentality that some have that doctors and med school are in their own league.

[Jedrnurse, BSN, RN]

(i.e. nurses eat their young).

Oh NO you didn't!!! Mentioning NETY is like screaming "Beetlejuice" three times!!!

[klone, MSN, RN]

I am dumbfounded that the word is used to describe bullying..

Smh

I think I would describe it more as "hazing" than "bullying". Bullying implies that the person is doing it because they're just not nice or they get some sort of perverse pleasure out of making someone feel bad. Hazing is more of an abusive rite of passage - the person doing it doesn't necessarily LIKE it, but feels like it's tradition and everyone has to experience it.

Either way, it's a dumb tradition.

[Marian96, ADN, BSN, MSN, RN, APRN, NP]

[City-Girl]

I work for a large teaching hospital and have never heard of or encountered this practice. Every year when the new interns start they do tend to ask a lot of questions to their attending as well as to the nursing staff and the majority of times the responses are respectable.

[Horseshoe, BSN, RN]

Pretty much the only times I have seen belittling happen were on ER and House.

Or Scrubs.

First 20 seconds of this is typical Dr. Cox, a guy who was very cleverly named.

[Horseshoe, BSN, RN]

And, if it happens at all, what is the likelihood of retaliation against someone who either returns fire at that moment (so as to save face if nothing else) or reports the abuse to the administration of the school or facility?

I wouldn't recommend "returning fire.":rolleyes: