I have been investigating both advanced practice nursing and medical training, and I get a bad feeling about medical training. I've mentioned attitude problems I've caught from doctors and medical students before, but now it's time to address one specific topic.
They say that in medical school, "pimping" is a common thing. Apparently there are two main types, each of which begins with a medical practitioner who is serving in the capacity of an instructor firing off a series of questions at a student or resident. The "beneficial" type is where the questions are legitimately related to something the student or resident should know because he/she will need to use it in practice, and if the student / resident gets to the point of saying "I don't know", the instructor will tell the student to look it up and perhaps do a brief presentation on it the next day they're together.
For the record, I consider this entirely acceptable. I teach (though not in a school) and I do the same thing to my students sometimes.
The second type is "malicious", where the point of the questioning is to humiliate and embarrass the student. As I've read, the questioning may or may not deal with relevant topics, but in either case when the student / resident reaches that "I don't know" point, the instructor will mock the person in front of his/her peers for not having that knowledge.
What makes it worse is that they seem to think that this is acceptable practice and that people should not rise up to stop it. (I suggested that they could rise up en masse to stop it if they wanted to, and some of them mocked me for that!!) Personally, I see no benefit in the mocking / humiliation / whatever you'd call it, because all that does is bring people down with no counterbalancing benefit.
So my question is: In nursing education, considering all levels from LPN up to DNP, how prevalent is the "malicious" form of "pimping"? And, if it happens at all, what is the likelihood of retaliation against someone who either returns fire at that moment (so as to save face if nothing else) or reports the abuse to the administration of the school or facility?
Specializes in Med/Surg/Infection Control/Geriatrics.
Belittling and humiliating a student serves no one. If a student is not prepared to be in class however, that's a different story. Don't misunderstand me please. I do believe it serves no one to be humiliated. But a better approach perhaps might be for that student to meet with the professor/tutoring service on campus, privately to come up with some learning strategies that would benefit the student.
If it is truly a serious concern and it does not get resolved through a respectful and honest effort on the student's part, then a meeting with the Dean might be appropriate.
I promise I made it to the very first reply and you already covered exactly what I was going to say. Kudos!
Now let me go back and read the rest. This should be interesting. LOL
OK I read the thread. I've never heard of the use of "pimping" in school or work, ever! Nevertheless, I've learned what it is from this thread. Interesting.
Now on to the grits and potatoes, I had a nursing instructor in undergrad who was a miserable POS and I'm not exaggerating. She was the spawn of satan. Every group that had her despised her existence cause she was super ridiculous. Well, I was going through some things in life and when she chose me as the victim of the week that was all she wrote. I had a complete meltdown on her and fussed her out so bad she paused and looked like she was going to cry.
However, I didn't show out on her in front of everyone like she did to us, I closed the door and let her have it. Then I opened the door and told my classmates to come in the room and sat down like I hadn't said a word but my eyes were red and I was pissed! For the first time ever, literally ever, she smiled at the group and asked everyone if we were having a good morning. My classmates looked at me and asked what I said to her, I said "nothing." She was never a jerk to us again after that but til this day I despise that b&*#h.
I've only come across one "malicious" instructor during my BSN clinical. However, she only picked on young college-age female students. She was always nice to male students, and she generally left the more mature female students alone because they know better how to defend themselves.
I love instructors who ask a lot of questions. It really helps me retain materials. My med-surg instructor (seasoned ICU nurse who graduated top of her class) did that and she wasn't malicious and she always asked relevant clinical questions. Some students thought she was too tough and intimidating so I guess it's all about preference.
Belittling and humiliating serves no purpose, but there are some students that seem to think that challenging and (at times) humbling is the same thing. The preceptor/instructor-student dynamic is important here, especially with the younger students. There needs to be an environment where students can be appropriately challenged and humbled without feeling abused or belittled or humiliated.
In my opinion, if a student is being assigned a patient then questions about that patient are clearly relevant and appropriate, regardless of whether those questions (and not knowing the answer) embarrasses the student.
Belittling and humiliating serves no purpose, but there are some students that seem to think that challenging and (at times) humbling is the same thing. The preceptor/instructor-student dynamic is important here, especially with the younger students. There needs to be an environment where students can be appropriately challenged and humbled without feeling abused or belittled or humiliated.
Well clearly there are students who will always frame being "challenged/humbled" as being abused, belittled, humiliated, or the most overused word on AN, "bullied." Feeling embarrassed because they were asked tough questions they didn't prepare properly to answer, they will deflect blame onto the instructor for being unreasonable to expect them to know xyz about their patient. This is all too common on AN, and I don't think it is unique to the younger students.
Well clearly there are students who will always frame being "challenged/humbled" as being abused, belittled, humiliated, or the most overused word on AN, "bullied." Feeling embarrassed because they were asked tough questions they didn't prepare properly to answer, they will deflect blame onto the instructor for being unreasonable to expect them to know xyz about their patient. This is all too common on AN, and I don't think it is unique to the younger students.
Exactly. I see it more commonly in younger students but I don't think it is unique to them (perhaps this is my generational bias). It seem more prevalent in nursing than with PA or medical students.
Belittling and humiliating serves no purpose, but there are some students that seem to think that challenging and (at times) humbling is the same thing. The preceptor/instructor-student dynamic is important here, especially with the younger students. There needs to be an environment where students can be appropriately challenged and humbled without feeling abused or belittled or humiliated.
In my opinion, if a student is being assigned a patient then questions about that patient are clearly relevant and appropriate, regardless of whether those questions (and not knowing the answer) embarrasses the student.
Agreed, but there's a difference in challenging students to make sure they know the material and being an outright jerk cause you're miserable and abuse your power. Nursing school is stressful enough. I may have been irked by something my children did but it's not OK to go into work and mistreat the patients or my coworkers. The instructor I spoke on was hateful towards other instructors too!
I learned best from the teachers who challenge you and are tough. But no one can learn anything from a bitter teacher who keeps moving the goal posts just to make the students appear incompetent. That's not a learning environment, that's a torture session by a sociopath.
Seen it all thru nursing school some jack ass teachers,some were just tough to make sure you were on your toes,some were downright mean.Seen it in the hospitals, docs doing it to subordinates,nurses .It is not really solved by reporting, but learn to defend yourself.
In nursing school, I only saw one mild case of this. It was by my 1st semester clinical instructor. Luckily, unless she was in a really bad mood, she could never follow-through with it and usually ended up apologizing. She once told me that she did it because if I wasn't able to respond quickly, that would indicate a lack of confidence in my answer. She added that such lack of confidence would lead my future instructors to "eat me alive". She routinely humiliated us, sometimes even taking personal jabs in front of the other students. That was her last semester teaching there, exact reasons unknown.
Aside from nursing school, I have seen it occur a lot, but the only time it seemed personal was when the professor repeatedly chose the same students throughout the semester. Other than that, no one really took offense, because if they didn't know the answers, they sort of blew the professor off. From my experience, I think the only students who really took it hard were the ones who usually "knew everything".
Side note: At the nursing school I went to, the instructors made a clear distinction between the "medical field" and "nursing". If they wanted to use a global term to describe our industry, including physicians and nurses, they referred to it as "healthcare". I'm not saying that is the right way, just noting that that is what's being taught in some locales.
Down in Texas we call it "BULLYING" but regardless it is the same and being in nursing over 30 yrs I've seen it at all levels. This one thing I know.
The person who does this type of thing has some major issues in life that has made them so insecure that the only way they can make themselves feel better is by belittling others. When I catch it I will tell them I am sorry they feel so bad abt themselves and that usually stops it. I once worked with an RN (LVN here) who thought she was all that and a bag of chips, and constantly ran LVN's down. When the day came the LVN fired her it was quite a shock to her system. LOL To me we all have different titles and sometimes different roles but from Housekeeping on up we can only do our jobs by teamwork, there isn't ANYONE better than anyone else.
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Have Nurse, ADN, RN
3 Articles; 719 Posts
Belittling and humiliating a student serves no one. If a student is not prepared to be in class however, that's a different story. Don't misunderstand me please. I do believe it serves no one to be humiliated. But a better approach perhaps might be for that student to meet with the professor/tutoring service on campus, privately to come up with some learning strategies that would benefit the student.
If it is truly a serious concern and it does not get resolved through a respectful and honest effort on the student's part, then a meeting with the Dean might be appropriate.