In a former life, I was an education counselor, so from that perspective, let me set a few things straight about education and the RN.
1. Nurses, don't require a degree. For most of the time, nurses were taught in diploma schools and some still are. Most of what a nurse learns is learned on the job. All education is great, but if a nurse is really going to be "well rounded" by education, they should have a bachelor's degree in one of the liberal art subjects and then nursing school.
2. The people who are most concerned about nurses having BSNs as entry level education are the educators. No big surprise there. Most hospitals couldn't care less, because they need people liscensed by the state as registered nurses.
3. Management requires a BSN only because there are a limited number of management slots, and education is a way of legitimately weeding applicants out. My boss was an ADN and manager of a cardiac unit for about 20 years before getting her BSN. In reality, a nurse would be better served with a A.A. in business management than a BSN if they are going to be managers.
4. MDs respect nurses. They don't really care how much education a nurse has because whatever education they have is not an MD and that's all they recognize. Why? Because they're MDs; it's a different profession. RNs are just as good as MDs, because in modern health care, both are essential for patient care and treatment. Competeing with MDs for professional status based on educational qualifications is a fool's game. The MD is considered the top of the educational food chain. But why would a nurse need or want a doctorate of medicine? They are equal with doctors in the profession of helping sick people even if they only went to a diploma school.
5. Continuing education is more important than formal academic degrees. What difference does it make if someone got their MSN 20 years ago? What have they done lately? Subscribe to three nursing mags and do their CEUs and you will be on top of the game. Combine that with national certification and you really have something that shows current competency.
6. It's true: if you want to be a psychotherapist, you need a MSW or some equivalent. Why? Because there is a glut of people getting BSc degrees in psychology and sociology. Why? because they're easy degrees. If the world needed therapists as much as they needed nurses, you'd have therapy schools with AASc programs just like nursing schools. In fact, look at the military: When the Air Force needs nurses they will commission nurses with ADNs. When they don't, they require a BSN. We aren't competing with other professions; we are nurses.
7. What I am saying will always be the case, and why? Because there will always be a nursing shortage, and not because of demographics, but because nursing takes a certain kind of person, and it's hard work. There is a shortage of bedside nurses; there always will be. There is no shortage of nurse managers or executives or NPs or CRNAs, and that's good news. Because if you really want to be a nurse, you can be and you don't have to continously seek after more and more degrees. You will always have a job, and you can be a professional person with initials after your name, and all that with only a diploma.
I must say that I find this "if you're not in nursing because of a 'calling' then you can't be a good nurse" attitude a bit disturbing. The implication that people can only be good at what you do due to a "calling" is simply not true. You certainly don't see this idea in most other professions. Where did this strange idea come from? Is my car not safe unless the engineers that designed it had a calling to build safe cars? Is my house not safe for my children unless the construction crew didn't have a "calling"? Nursing is not the only profession that affects people's quality of life and you can only be a good nurse if you try to be one. There is certainly nothing wrong if you feel you are in nursing because of this "calling" business, but having a "calling" is will not, in itself, make you good at anything.
-S
Let me chime in with the others that this was well said!
There was a wonderful episode of the TV show M*A*S*H where Margaret "Hot Lips" Houlihan confesses to Hawkeye that she aspired to be "Joan of Arc" as a young girl but settled for Army Nursing instead.
I disagree with your post on several points, but the two that stand out the most are your views on education. Studies (by people with EDUCATION) have shown that hospitals employing more BSN prepared nurses have better patient outcomes. Our management is endorsing (with $) higher education and actively seek BSN prepared nurses. Also, there is more to nursing than tasks. There is more to nursing than bedside nursing. That is why nursing is such a great profession, it allows for a variety of people to perform a variety of jobs. What we need is more posts PROMOTING team work.
I disagree with your post on several points, but the two that stand out the most are your views on education. Studies (by people with EDUCATION) have shown that hospitals employing more BSN prepared nurses have better patient outcomes. Our management is endorsing (with $) higher education and actively seek BSN prepared nurses. Also, there is more to nursing than tasks. There is more to nursing than bedside nursing. That is why nursing is such a great profession, it allows for a variety of people to perform a variety of jobs. What we need is more posts PROMOTING team work.
Does your management recognize equivalent education in lieu of a BSN?...say, an RN with a BS in biological sciences, with a minor in chemistry, who follows up with a MS in Epidemiology, plus a MPH? Would none of these titles qualify as "education", since my experience with management is that only a BSN qualifies for monetary incentives. There are so few BSNs that this keeps the bottom line intact. If management recognizes educational achievement beyond the vocational "training" of your typical ADN/Diploma RN program, than I can say that we have beaucoup baccalaureate and masters prepared nurses in this country who are not being recognized and compensated accordingly. In my former ER, 126 RN's had Bachelors and Masters degrees...only 5 had BSNs...only 5 got the additional $2.00 per hour for educational achievement beyond the ADN.
Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
Originally posted by Alnamvet
Does your management recognize equivalent education in lieu of a BSN?...say, an RN with a BS in biological sciences, with a minor in chemistry, who follows up with a MS in Epidemiology, plus a MPH? Would none of these titles qualify as "education", since my experience with management is that only a BSN qualifies for monetary incentives. There are so few BSNs that this keeps the bottom line intact. If management recognizes educational achievement beyond the vocational "training" of your typical ADN/Diploma RN program, than I can say that we have beaucoup baccalaureate and masters prepared nurses in this country who are not being recognized and compensated accordingly. In my former ER, 126 RN's had Bachelors and Masters degrees...only 5 had BSNs...only 5 got the additional $2.00 per hour for educational achievement beyond the ADN.
excellent point! Why IS it only a **BSN** is recognized as a valuable baccalaureate degree in nursing? Why NOT a B.S.in biology, coupled with an ADN? WHY NOT A B.A. in BUISINESS----in today's HMO-driven atmosphere, that would serve MANY of us MUCH better than a BSN. I could name many other bachelor's degrees that would work well, coupled with the ADN. Yet so many have to go back and get their BSN in accelerated programs?? Or MSN? WHY??? IF education is WHAT WILL SET US APART AND ADVANCE US, then RECOGNIZE IT ALL!!!!
I NEVER will understand this, either. Especially when BSN nurses are often quoted here as saying it makes them more "well rounded" and "better educated" ----ok then, if that is so true, reward those with ALL forms of 4 or 6-year post-secondary education!! This is one very fundamental flaw in nursing and has been a LOOOOONG TIME!!!!! Gives me serious heartburn myself!
IF education is WHAT WILL SET US APART AND ADVANCE US, then RECOGNIZE IT ALL!!!!!
There is an issue of relevance that must be factored in somehow. For example a degree in education may help advance a nurse educator. A degree in business my help advance a case manager.
I think that education and training should be relevant to the professional endeavor if there is to be added value.
The point of professional education and training is to improve our cognitive and psychomotor skills (generally speaking) so we can be more able and productive in our jobs. My employer can care less about my educational pedigree if I fail to meet expectations in the performance of my duties.
Those who seek education and training solely to have prestige and status will be disappointed.
Our hospital does employ managers with Masters degrees in nursing or education or business or health care administration. The universities employ nursing professors with Masters in education or nursing as well. I do think other types of education are valued (and valuable) in nursing.
As far as entry level, the BSN is the minimum here. What this means is that students with other degrees can challenge certain courses in the BSN programs, so they are getting a type of advanced placement, but they still have to get their BSN in the end. I don't have a problem with this. I think it's very fair, because it balances giving credit for past work and having a universal standard for new nurses.
OH - I am so glad I'm just starting my education in nursing. I have a lot to learn. One is to not get upset about the environment around me but to make sure the patients are taken care of. Why should I worry about nurse shortages if I plan to be one. Why should I worry if a doctor is the respector or not, the patient is the one needing the respect, right?
I must say that I find this "if you're not in nursing because of a 'calling' then you can't be a good nurse" attitude a bit disturbing. The implication that people can only be good at what you do due to a "calling" is simply not true. You certainly don't see this idea in most other professions. Where did this strange idea come from? Is my car not safe unless the engineers that designed it had a calling to build safe cars? Is my house not safe for my children unless the construction crew didn't have a "calling"? Nursing is not the only profession that affects people's quality of life and you can only be a good nurse if you try to be one. There is certainly nothing wrong if you feel you are in nursing because of this "calling" business, but having a "calling" is will not, in itself, make you good at anything.
-S
Wow, I can't agree with you more. Nursing for me is NOT some sort of "calling". It in not some sort of mystical job or something more special than other jobs out there. When I go see my doctor I dont care if he feels he was "called" to be a doctor, I just want good care and people who know what they are doing, same for nurses and everyone else who effects my life.
I never felt "called" to be a mother either (actually I never planned to have kids), me and my husband just happened to get preg 3 years into our marriage, but I am a D*MN good mom to 2 kids :)
Wow, I can't agree with you more. Nursing for me is NOT some sort of "calling". It in not some sort of mystical job or something more special than other jobs out there. When I go see my doctor I dont care if he feels he was "called" to be a doctor, I just want good care and people who know what they are doing, same for nurses and everyone else who effects my life.
I never felt "called" to be a mother either (actually I never planned to have kids), me and my husband just happened to get preg 3 years into our marriage, but I am a D*MN good mom to 2 kids :)
Marilyn
I agree also. I think nursing is a dynamic and interesting field. That's what caught my attention. If there is any sort of a "calling" involved, it's more of an intellectual one than a spiritual one.
Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
Our hospital does employ managers with Masters degrees in nursing or education or business or health care administration. The universities employ nursing professors with Masters in education or nursing as well. I do think other types of education are valued (and valuable) in nursing.
As far as entry level, the BSN is the minimum here. What this means is that students with other degrees can challenge certain courses in the BSN programs, so they are getting a type of advanced placement, but they still have to get their BSN in the end. I don't have a problem with this. I think it's very fair, because it balances giving credit for past work and having a universal standard for new nurses.
which brings up a question, fergus. DO nurses get more respect in Canada due to the increased minimal entry requirement? I really want to know why so many run here to the USA, if they do.
Tweety, BSN, RN
36,295 Posts
Let me chime in with the others that this was well said!
Nursing is not a "holier than thou" profession.