In a former life, I was an education counselor, so from that perspective, let me set a few things straight about education and the RN.
1. Nurses, don't require a degree. For most of the time, nurses were taught in diploma schools and some still are. Most of what a nurse learns is learned on the job. All education is great, but if a nurse is really going to be "well rounded" by education, they should have a bachelor's degree in one of the liberal art subjects and then nursing school.
2. The people who are most concerned about nurses having BSNs as entry level education are the educators. No big surprise there. Most hospitals couldn't care less, because they need people liscensed by the state as registered nurses.
3. Management requires a BSN only because there are a limited number of management slots, and education is a way of legitimately weeding applicants out. My boss was an ADN and manager of a cardiac unit for about 20 years before getting her BSN. In reality, a nurse would be better served with a A.A. in business management than a BSN if they are going to be managers.
4. MDs respect nurses. They don't really care how much education a nurse has because whatever education they have is not an MD and that's all they recognize. Why? Because they're MDs; it's a different profession. RNs are just as good as MDs, because in modern health care, both are essential for patient care and treatment. Competeing with MDs for professional status based on educational qualifications is a fool's game. The MD is considered the top of the educational food chain. But why would a nurse need or want a doctorate of medicine? They are equal with doctors in the profession of helping sick people even if they only went to a diploma school.
5. Continuing education is more important than formal academic degrees. What difference does it make if someone got their MSN 20 years ago? What have they done lately? Subscribe to three nursing mags and do their CEUs and you will be on top of the game. Combine that with national certification and you really have something that shows current competency.
6. It's true: if you want to be a psychotherapist, you need a MSW or some equivalent. Why? Because there is a glut of people getting BSc degrees in psychology and sociology. Why? because they're easy degrees. If the world needed therapists as much as they needed nurses, you'd have therapy schools with AASc programs just like nursing schools. In fact, look at the military: When the Air Force needs nurses they will commission nurses with ADNs. When they don't, they require a BSN. We aren't competing with other professions; we are nurses.
7. What I am saying will always be the case, and why? Because there will always be a nursing shortage, and not because of demographics, but because nursing takes a certain kind of person, and it's hard work. There is a shortage of bedside nurses; there always will be. There is no shortage of nurse managers or executives or NPs or CRNAs, and that's good news. Because if you really want to be a nurse, you can be and you don't have to continously seek after more and more degrees. You will always have a job, and you can be a professional person with initials after your name, and all that with only a diploma.
...if one has an ADN, they usually propose that this is suitable for the role of staff nurse...if one has a BSN, they know different and it is the intelligent BSN nurse leader who reveals this to the ADN by example and not by senseless verbage. I have taught many students and always encourage them to make a significant difference, but I remind them that it is not worth their time to engage in a ADN vs. BSN war with an ADN.
Ok, I read this at least a couple of times to make sure you are saying what I think you are...Initially it really ticked me off, but now I think its kind of sad. All I can say is no wonder there is such hostility, if you ingrain the idea into the "intelligent BSN nurse leader" that she should reveal her "superiority" to the ADN kindly and gently, by example. Can you not see how insulting this is? I don't call your degree worthless, so why can't you respect mine?
Question: On the floor, how can I expect a BSN with whom I am working side by side to reveal her superiority? We are both staff nurses, neither of us are charge, we are SIDE BY SIDE.
If I read your message wrong, please forgive me, but I believe there is room for all of us. Sorry if I got into the thread a little late.
I guess I just don't see why a change in RN education would have to affect LPNs at all. In the Canadian provinces that have mandated BSN as entry to practice, LPNs have not been affected. They are responsible for their own profession. RPNs in Ontario did choose to increase to a 3 year program, but that was their decision.
As far as respect.... I don't think there is any one cure all for that. I do think a bachelors does help with some people. I am coming from a province that had a NASTY contract dispute during which there were more than a few comments to the effect of "Why do nurses think they deserve more money, they don't even have to have a degree?", as though the Diploma program didn't count. The attitude is ignorant, but it is there. In Canada, where taxpayers money goes to our salaries, it is particularly important, and may not apply to the US as much.
Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
Originally posted by nursbee04
All I can say is no wonder there is such hostility, if you ingrain the idea into the "intelligent BSN nurse leader" that she should reveal her "superiority" to the ADN kindly and gently, by example. Can you not see how insulting this is? I don't call your degree worthless, so why can't you respect mine?
D.B., ADN 2004
Exactly where MY anger comes from; this sort of attitude IS insulting. VERY. I still say stop dividing us with such attitudes. There IS room for us all! Where I work, unless you ASK you won't know a BSN-versus-ADN-prepared nurse. The BSN nurses among us don't need to "Gently" remind us of a DAMN thing. (and they are smarter than this to even try).
WE KNOW WE ARE SKILLED and CAPABLE. Attitudes like this will just make things much worse among our ranks. They serve NO useful purpose at all! So please STOP IT already!
...................................Renee,that Link did not work for me! (sorry)
I knowwww....pity, too because the two polar bears were fighting and I wanted to make every one laugh as they thought about how we are always getting into these "my degree vs. your degree" catfights! I'll find out what I did wrong. Sorry!
Perhaps the video game makers should make a video game with nurses catfighting so we can all watch it on the days we are spiteful and pizzed off enough to socker-punch each other. :rotfl:
Specializes in ER, PED'S, NICU, CLINICAL M., ONCO..
Guys! Really a long thread...
Following statistics, (beyond all of us), education is a global tendency. Probably this kind of discussions is going to be obsolete very soon. Things change so fast.
By the way, I'm lost. Who's the winner of this match?
I still don't know if I did wrong in finishing my BS?
Did I?
Or I'm doing wrong in remaining at the pt's bed, still cleaning bottoms and emptying bedpans?
Guys! Really a long thread...
nursbee04
223 Posts
Ok, I read this at least a couple of times to make sure you are saying what I think you are...Initially it really ticked me off, but now I think its kind of sad. All I can say is no wonder there is such hostility, if you ingrain the idea into the "intelligent BSN nurse leader" that she should reveal her "superiority" to the ADN kindly and gently, by example. Can you not see how insulting this is? I don't call your degree worthless, so why can't you respect mine?
Question: On the floor, how can I expect a BSN with whom I am working side by side to reveal her superiority? We are both staff nurses, neither of us are charge, we are SIDE BY SIDE.
If I read your message wrong, please forgive me, but I believe there is room for all of us. Sorry if I got into the thread a little late.
D.B., ADN 2004