Leaving Your Job Due to Mandate

Updated:   Published

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For those of you who have recognized your employer can terminate you for not taking the COVID vaccine and have decided on or are considering employment elsewhere please share your experiences here. How do you feel about having to make that choice? 

The purpose of this thread is not to condemn those making this decision or debate whether they should vaccinate or not. 

Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.
11 hours ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

Of COURSE they can't say for sure the vaccine directly caused the deaths! That's practically impossible to prove beyond doubt. The point for the 100th time is personal autonomy. I'm not saying anything is right for anyone. I'm saying it is a question for the individual and your side is the reason people are hesitant on a large scale!

Your side is advocating lockdowns, mandates, school closures, all these draconian measures, mask on, mask off, 2 masks!, Masks on in the woods a mile from anyone, Curfews (cause covid is gonna get you when most people go home to sleep apparently) and on and on. Trying to force people to agree with you makes people want to ignore you! If this had always been a clear cut, "here are the facts. Here are the risks. We suggest you take it because the evidence is good"and treated people like adults with respect, maybe we'd be at 75% by now. But no. You still don't get it. People have the right to refuse. Period. And if those telling them they need something aren't trusted, people will choose NO!

But your side denies natural immunity, the existence of effective therapeutics, efficacy of early treatment protocols, and people KNOW they are being lied to! They aren't stupid! If your side keeps lying, hesitant people will just fight back. Admit the legitimacy of your opposition and you may just see cooperation. Why is this so hard for y'all?

Bull crap.  Show me nurses on this site who advocate lockdowns and school closures.  We actually know that schools can be run safely when the kids are vaccinated OR can hold classes outdoors.  It's the folks who won't permit measures that we know help that are screwing it up for the kids.  The endless cycle of opening and closing schools until kids are vaccinated only shows our collective hubris of those that believe we are the masters of a highly contageous virus that infects through air and mutates faster than going though  the Greek alphabet will last.  Show me ONE person on this forum who denies natural immunity.  How many times does it have to be repeated that natural immunity is a real thing but wanes with time.  I had my 2nd shot in February so I'm not running out to get a booster.  I behave as if everyone is unvaxxed when in public and feel safe.  However, I don't have to ride a subway anymore with people coughing and sneezing around me.  Lies, lies, lies.

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Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
1 hour ago, litepath2 said:

Depends. If it's 2009, then you use the PRISM system specifically designed to intake and asses & report on the H1N1 vaccines problems. Created by and monitored by people outside of the profit chain.

2020-2021, "nah, we don't need no stinkin PRISM program. We have VAERS!"

 

Gaps-> https://www.healthleadersmedia.com/covid-19/detecting-rare-blood-clots-was-win-us-vaccine-safety-system-still-has-gaps

You mentioned this previously and were provided evidence that CDC continues to utilize PRISM for modeling.  Does that mean that you are personally invested in this specific belief that it is not?

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Specializes in ICU/Burn ICU/MSICU/NeuroICU.
4 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

You mentioned this previously and were provided evidence that CDC continues to utilize PRISM for modeling.  Does that mean that you are personally invested in this specific belief that it is not?

Yeah. Not. They are choosing NOT to use this for the present vaccine program, the mRNA tech. And why not? It was created to aid vaccine hesitancy and they are not using it. 

You provided evidence for nothing related to my premise.

 

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Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
12 minutes ago, litepath2 said:

Yeah. Not. They are choosing NOT to use this for the present vaccine program, the mRNA tech. And why not? It was created to aid vaccine hesitancy and they are not using it. 

You provided evidence for nothing related to my premise.

 

From your citation:

Quote

FDA officials said PRISM's capabilities have been incorporated into BEST, which can examine data from 100 million people. Experts told KHN that it has not been used extensively to monitor post-vaccination effects, but Capobianco said: "We disagree."

Quote

In addition, some vaccine safety experts point to a lack of clear authority in the area. The Trump administration shut down the NVPO, a federal office with expertise in monitoring vaccine safety, merging it into a government agency focused on infectious diseases.

As a result, monitoring of COVID vaccine safety is fragmented among federal agencies, said Salmon, who now directs the Institute for Vaccine Safety at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health.

"There is no single person in charge," he said. "You need to have somebody in charge."

 

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Specializes in oncology.
7 hours ago, Glam03 said:

2nd one between 21 to 28 days then I need to repeat the series again..

Just get it then..You mean you don't have any time within 7 days to get it? Don't make life difficult by trying to make a stand that they're wrong and you believe your right.

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Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.
1 hour ago, subee said:

 

This is an article from NBC discussing reporting gaps.  The CDC website still has PRISM as up and running but that is contradicted by this NBC report.  PRISM has evolved into BEST but there are people who still detect problems in reporting.  This is above my pay grade.  But as of today 5.08 billion doses have been administered.  Is the whole world conspiring to keep information about this vaccine from us?  I don't think so.  We are not the only country generating statistics.  But CDC should remove the PRISM section from it's website.  I don't think the intent was evil.  Just understaffing and general administrative clunkerheadedness.  

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Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
8 minutes ago, subee said:

This is an article from NBC discussing reporting gaps.  The CDC website still has PRISM as up and running but that is contradicted by this NBC report.  PRISM has evolved into BEST but there are people who still detect problems in reporting.  This is above my pay grade.  But as of today 5.08 billion doses have been administered.  Is the whole world conspiring to keep information about this vaccine from us?  I don't think so.  We are not the only country generating statistics.  But CDC should remove the PRISM section from it's website.  I don't think the intent was evil.  Just understaffing and general administrative clunkerheadedness.  

It's upsetting for emotional people. It's not really that big of a deal. They are trying to tweak the modeling of chronic diseases to accommodate modeling for acute infectious diseases.  That's not an easy task. 

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Specializes in ICU/Burn ICU/MSICU/NeuroICU.
17 minutes ago, subee said:

This is an article from NBC discussing reporting gaps.  The CDC website still has PRISM as up and running but that is contradicted by this NBC report.  PRISM has evolved into BEST but there are people who still detect problems in reporting.  This is above my pay grade.  But as of today 5.08 billion doses have been administered.  Is the whole world conspiring to keep information about this vaccine from us?  I don't think so.  We are not the only country generating statistics.  But CDC should remove the PRISM section from it's website.  I don't think the intent was evil.  Just understaffing and general administrative clunkerheadedness.  

Probably. Like you, I have no idea, other than what the CDC does presently do with it. They bigger issue for me is simply why: If it was built and established to help with vaccine hesitancy during H1N1, why not now?

That is assuming we agree that vaccine hesitancy is a problem.

And that we 'may-agree' that having people removed from the profit chain lends credibility to the reporting process. Profit motives are all over this vaccine, from stem to stern and have been mentioned time and again by people discussing.

All I ever was addressing was vaccine hesitancy and profit chain. Though I suppose this is a thread derail.

thanks!

https://www.statnews.com/2020/10/29/lessons-h1n1-monitoring-covid-19-vaccine-safety/

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Specializes in ER, Occupational Health.
On 8/25/2021 at 9:59 AM, subee said:

For the umpteenth time:  NO ONE is going to wrestle you to the ground to give you a vaccine.  You just can't work in a hospital or most other places.  Your freedom, your choice.

I have seen this argument a lot.

The definition of "forced" is:  "obtained or imposed by coercion or physical power."  

https://www.Google.com/search?q=forced+definition&rlz=1C1GCEJ_enUS968US968&oq=forced&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i57j0i271l3j69i60l3.1280j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

The definition of "coercion" is:  "the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats."  "What is the full meaning of coercion?  the act of coercing; use of force or intimidation to obtain compliance. ... force or the power to use force in gaining compliance, as by a government or police force."  

https://www.Google.com/search?q=coercion+definition&rlz=1C1GCEJ_enUS968US968&ei=5OgnYfKGKMrWtAa-tIPQCA&oq=coer+definition&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAEYADIGCAAQBxAeMgYIABAHEB4yBggAEAcQHjIGCAAQBxAeMgYIABAHEB4yBggAEAcQHjIGCAAQBxAeMgYIABAHEB4yBggAEAcQHjIGCAAQBxAeOgcIABBHELADOgcIABCwAxBDOgoIABCABBBGEPkBOgsIABCABBCxAxCDAToFCAAQgAQ6CggAELEDEIMBEEM6BAgAEENKBQg6EgExSgQIQRgAUKPpA1jT_wNgh5QEaAFwAngAgAGaAogBxQiSAQU4LjEuMZgBAKABAcgBCcABAQ&sclient=gws-wiz

While vaccines are not "forced" in the sense of using physical restraint, they are nonetheless "forced" by definition because people are being intimidated by the use of threats to vaccinate or lose one's job.

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Specializes in Being myself.
On 8/25/2021 at 12:25 PM, salandit said:

Is there evidence of second doses being required despite issues with the first dose in these mandates? I would personally hope there are exceptions in these cases, because the point isn’t to cause harm to individuals and they’d be partially protected already. However, I think that uncomfortable side effects should be differentiated from actual patient harm, because I’m not sure that some individuals understand the difference.

The doctor can sign off due to the second shot being medically contraindicated. *If* I took a 2 dose shot, the 2nd dose my Gastro MD would have wrote a note stating as such, with evidence of my care. 

❤

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Specializes in Hospice.
2 minutes ago, InHisImage said:

I have seen this argument a lot.

The definition of "forced" is:  "obtained or imposed by coercion or physical power."  

https://www.Google.com/search?q=forced+definition&rlz=1C1GCEJ_enUS968US968&oq=forced&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i57j0i271l3j69i60l3.1280j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

The definition of "coercion" is:  "the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats."  "What is the full meaning of coercion?  the act of coercing; use of force or intimidation to obtain compliance. ... force or the power to use force in gaining compliance, as by a government or police force."  

https://www.Google.com/search?q=coercion+definition&rlz=1C1GCEJ_enUS968US968&ei=5OgnYfKGKMrWtAa-tIPQCA&oq=coer+definition&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAEYADIGCAAQBxAeMgYIABAHEB4yBggAEAcQHjIGCAAQBxAeMgYIABAHEB4yBggAEAcQHjIGCAAQBxAeMgYIABAHEB4yBggAEAcQHjIGCAAQBxAeOgcIABBHELADOgcIABCwAxBDOgoIABCABBBGEPkBOgsIABCABBCxAxCDAToFCAAQgAQ6CggAELEDEIMBEEM6BAgAEENKBQg6EgExSgQIQRgAUKPpA1jT_wNgh5QEaAFwAngAgAGaAogBxQiSAQU4LjEuMZgBAKABAcgBCcABAQ&sclient=gws-wiz

While vaccines are not "forced" in the sense of using physical restraint, they are nonetheless "forced" by definition because people are being intimidated by the use of threats to vaccinate or lose one's job.

Entitled much? No one owes you a job and if you can’t meet the requirements of the job, you can’t work there. And don’t plead the ADA - if an employer can’t make a reasonable accommodation, the ADA doesn’t apply. If the feds go through with the plan to stop Medicare/Medicaid payments to facilities with unvaccinated workers, “reasonable accommodation” will become a moot point.

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Specializes in Acute Dialysis.
5 hours ago, subee said:

Bull crap.  Show me nurses on this site who advocate lockdowns and school closures.  We actually know that schools can be run safely when the kids are vaccinated OR can hold classes outdoors.  It's the folks who won't permit measures that we know help that are screwing it up for the kids.  The endless cycle of opening and closing schools until kids are vaccinated only shows our collective hubris of those that believe we are the masters of a highly contageous virus that infects through air and mutates faster than going though  the Greek alphabet will last.  Show me ONE person on this forum who denies natural immunity.  How many times does it have to be repeated that natural immunity is a real thing but wanes with time.  I had my 2nd shot in February so I'm not running out to get a booster.  I behave as if everyone is unvaxxed when in public and feel safe.  However, I don't have to ride a subway anymore with people coughing and sneezing around me.  Lies, lies, lies.

There's 3 sides to this. One side, the"anti vax" well call them (those opposed to this vaccine on principle like personal freedom restrictions from government). This side sees the opposing side as authoritarian. Can you blame them? The mixed messaging about masks and curfews, the rhetoric about how therapeutic medications don't work (plaquenil, nebulizers, steroids, etc), and the only option offered is vax and mask or lose your job. That's what is being offered to them. It feels like a gun to the head situation. Would you trust someone like that? Do it because I say so, even if it hurts you. 

That side hears a group of nut cases with videos of magnets stuck to their arms and reports of new world order, but those nut cases take their legitimate concerns seriously, thus they see them on their own side (regardless how insane they are, at least they aren't demanding compliance against their will). And stories about national house confinement in Australia, 5000$ fines for being caught less than a mile from their homes and they fear that is coming to their own country.

Meanwhile, knowledgeable nurses and doctors, while well meaning, who talk about the vaccines being safe and effective and EVERYONE should get it are lumped in with the totalitarians as one big group. This isn't about facts or data. This is about politics. No it doesn't make sense on its face. Politics is irrational.

I don't know that it can be reversed. The only side they CAN be convinced by is in the middle. The middle takes their concerns seriously, respects them as adults, gives them the risk vs reward, and leaves it at that. It doesn't matter if nurses on this site personally support lockdowns. By taking the rigid position "safe and effective, everyone should be vaxxed period", those nurses are aligning themselves with the totalitarians and will be ignored. That's just where we are. 

As for natural immunity, that side says essentially "It doesn't work. Get vaxxed now!" You and I know that's BS. No it's possibly not as good as vaccination plus natural. But it IS protective and denied by the pro vaxx side. The pro vaxx side doesn't even seen to consider natural immunity in the heard immunity calculation (if they do, we never hear about it). In the push to get everyone vaccinated, that IS the message being heard. "There's nothing else! Do it now. Vax and mask or lose your job, become homeless and get out of town!" 

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