Leaving Your Job Due to Mandate

[jive turkey]

For those of you who have recognized your employer can terminate you for not taking the COVID vaccine and have decided on or are considering employment elsewhere please share your experiences here. How do you feel about having to make that choice? 

The purpose of this thread is not to condemn those making this decision or debate whether they should vaccinate or not. 

[toomuchbaloney]

2 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

I'm always open to a civil debate but if you can't do it,  farewell to you too?

So you say when not snarking...

[jive turkey]

29 minutes ago, heron said:

Sounds pretty entitled to me … entitled to their jobs regardless of the risk to patients, co-workers and employers. I’ve already told my story in several different threads and won’t repeat it here. Suffice it to say that I have no sympathy with unvaccinated workers barring serious medical contraindications. I really don’t care if their feelings are hurt by that. Choices have consequences. The voluntarily unvaccinated need to deal with that and not demand that the rest of us enable them.

That's the attitude that concerns me. 

 

Let me ask you,  do you care if more people get vaccinated? Is that the result you'd like to see? The answer may seem obvious but humor me. Yes or no?

[heron, ASN, RN]

I really miss the ROFL emoji.

[heron, ASN, RN]

32 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

That's the attitude that concerns me. 

 

Let me ask you,  do you care if more people get vaccinated? Is that the result you'd like to see? The answer may seem obvious but humor me. Yes or no?

Of course I do - but this particular discussion is about vaccination as a condition of employment and whether voluntarily unvaccinated people have an absolute right to avoid the consequences of their choices.

As for my attitude, I’ve had too much experience with people who have self-destructive behaviors. Non-judgemental information sharing works only up to a point. As others have pointed out, some are convinced only by having to deal with the consequences of their decisions and shielding them from that actually impedes change.

Meanwhile, I also care about the people at greater risk of serious illness or death by exposure to unvaccinated people or lack of access to care because facilities are stuffed to the gunwales by Covid patients.

Which group do you consider more important and deserving of my concern?

[toomuchbaloney]

Isn't it cute that we are supposed to care about the feelings people who don't care about others?

[jive turkey]

22 minutes ago, heron said:

Of course I do - but this particular discussion is about vaccination as a condition of employment and whether voluntarily unvaccinated people have an absolute right to avoid the consequences of their choices.

As for my attitude, I’ve had too much experience with people who have self-destructive behaviors. Non-judgemental information sharing works only up to a point. As others have pointed out, some are convinced only by having to deal with the consequences of their decisions and shielding them from that actually impedes change.

Meanwhile, I also care about the people at greater risk of serious illness or death by exposure to unvaccinated people or lack of access to care because facilities are stuffed to the gunwales by Covid patients.

Which group do you consider more important and deserving of my concern?

In bold,  the title nor the original post said anything about people having the right to avoid consequences. 

Second, my point isn't about who you should favor.  It's about what attitude will get results.  Having disdain for the unvaccinated isn't helping either group. That attitude plus mandates exacerbates the lack of trust that's already an issue.  That attitude does not facilitate sharing information.   Empathy and communication would.  

What I see happening is many vaccine supporters fostering their intolerance more than trying to work out a solution the end with more vaccinated people, medical pros included. We are too talented to be consumed by our emotions like the irrational hard core antivaxxers. 

[heron, ASN, RN]

14 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Isn't it cute that we are supposed to care about the feelings people who don't care about others?

Yup. Also cute that many of them would likely be howling about “personal responsibility” when the subject of anti-poverty measures comes up. But that’s for another thread. 

I get that every person convinced to no longer hesitate to get vaccinated is a step in the right direction. 

[heron, ASN, RN]

56 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

In bold,  the title nor the original post said anything about people having the right to avoid consequences. 

Second, my point isn't about who you should favor.  It's about what attitude will get results.  Having disdain for the unvaccinated isn't helping either group. That attitude plus mandates exacerbates the lack of trust that's already an issue.  That attitude does not facilitate sharing information.   Empathy and communication would.  

What I see happening is many vaccine supporters fostering their intolerance more than trying to work out a solution the end with more vaccinated people, medical pros included. We are too talented to be consumed by our emotions like the irrational hard core antivaxxers. 

What, exactly, is your point? The title of the thread is “Leaving your job due to mandate.” The particular post to which I responded was asserting that vaccine mandates are indeed “forced vaccinations” and implied that this is somehow unfair. I do not agree with shielding the voluntarily unvaccinated from the consequences of their choices, including compassion fatigue and the resentment on the part of those who have to clean up after them.

The time for patient, therapeutic persuasion  passed when the delta variant exploded, especially for the children in ICU’s and people dying on vents. Mandated vaccination for particularly dangerous infections has been happening since at least 1905, when the Supreme Court upheld the imposition of a $5 fine for failing to vaccinate against smallpox.

As for “intolerance” and repressing our own emotions in the name of professionalism, tell it to the nurses in Florida. And Alabama. And Texas. And Mississippi. Etc., etc.

Also, regarding the pejorative labeling and the call to repress our feelings about prolonging the pandemic unnecessarily, I still ask just who gains from making sure that the pandemic and it’s attendant disruption lasts as long as possible?

[10GaugeNeedles, BSN]

3 minutes ago, heron said:

What, exactly, is your point? The title of the thread is “Leaving your job due to mandate.” The particular post to which I responded was asserting that vaccine mandates are indeed “forced vaccinations” and implied that this is somehow unfair. I do not agree with shielding the voluntarily unvaccinated from the consequences of their choices, including compassion fatigue and the resentment on the part of those who have to clean up after them.

The time for patient, therapeutic persuasion  passed when the delta variant exploded, especially for the children in ICU’s and people dying on vents. Mandated vaccination for particularly dangerous infections has been happening since at least 1905, when the Supreme Court upheld the imposition of a $5 fine for failing to vaccinate against smallpox.

As for “intolerance” and repressing our own emotions in the name of professionalism, tell it to the nurses in Florida. And Alabama. And Texas. And Mississippi. Etc., etc.

Also, regarding the pejorative labeling and the call to repress our feelings about prolonging the pandemic unnecessarily, I still ask just who gains from making sure that the pandemic and it’s attendant disruption lasts as long as possible?

I agree. I think the government hasn't gone far enough. lets restrict movement to 1 kilometer from your house, 1 hour of exercise per day, no speaking to anyone but those you physically live with, and a 5000$ fine for each infraction to the above. lets apply this to the entire country. Lets confine every single person entering from out of any state to a hotel for 14 days and charge them 2000$ for the privilege. lets make these rules permanent until the entire world is completely covid sterile for a full 12 months. (this looks alot like prison to me). 

Do you want this? Think this is overboard? Because they are imposing a very similar scheme in australia right now. 

If you do want this, you are part of the problem. The vaccine that we have right now does not eliminate the virus. the virus mutates. You have a good point. but so does the opposition. there must be compromise. if we go down the mandate route its only a matter of time before the government goes the way of australia. that is NOT a world we want. maybe you do. but we don't. 

[heron, ASN, RN]

31 minutes ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

I agree. I think the government hasn't gone far enough. lets restrict movement to 1 kilometer from your house, 1 hour of exercise per day, no speaking to anyone but those you physically live with, and a 5000$ fine for each infraction to the above. lets apply this to the entire country. Lets confine every single person entering from out of any state to a hotel for 14 days and charge them 2000$ for the privilege. lets make these rules permanent until the entire world is completely covid sterile for a full 12 months. (this looks alot like prison to me). 

Do you want this? Think this is overboard? Because they are imposing a very similar scheme in australia right now. 

If you do want this, you are part of the problem. The vaccine that we have right now does not eliminate the virus. the virus mutates. You have a good point. but so does the opposition. there must be compromise. if we go down the mandate route its only a matter of time before the government goes the way of australia. that is NOT a world we want. maybe you do. but we don't. 

Well, it didn’t happen in 1905 when smallpox vaccination was legally required and failure to do so was subject to a fine equivalent to $150. Nor did it happen when tbc treatment was legally mandated. Smallpox, of course, has been officially eradicated, but tbc hasn’t. To this day, treatment can be legally forced, regardless of consent. (I was offered a head nurse position on a locked unit established specifically for this.)

Do you want to live in a world where healthcare is simply no longer available to anyone but the one percent because all available resources, both human and material, have been sucked up by the pandemic and the economy can no longer replace what we lost? 

Your reduction ad absurdum is a handy rhetorical tactic, though it misrepresents what I support, which is mandatory vaccination in the workplace. It will certainly be interesting to see what happens in Australia long term.

[jive turkey]

1 hour ago, heron said:

What, exactly, is your point? T

The time for patient, therapeutic persuasion  passed when the delta variant exploded, especially for the children in ICU’s and people dying on vents. Mandated vaccination for particularly dangerous infections has been happening since at least 1905, when the Supreme Court upheld the imposition of a $5 fine for failing to vaccinate against smallpox.

As for “intolerance” and repressing our own emotions in 

Also, regarding the pejorative labeling and the call to repress our feelings about prolonging the pandemic unnecessarily, I still ask just who gains from making sure that the pandemic and it’s attendant disruption lasts as long as possible?

My point is an attitude like the one you share isn't encouraging vaccinations among the hesitant. 

Nobody said repress your feelings. Exercise the talent of managing them more effectively. We do that all the time.  COVID is not the only challenge we've dealt with in the field.  

I'll respectfully agree to disagree with you. If you feel bearing animosity is increasing vaccinations there's nothing I can say to you bro. 

I think China shares your perspective with how to deal with the public. 

[10GaugeNeedles, BSN]

33 minutes ago, heron said:

Well, it didn’t happen in 1905 when smallpox vaccination was legally required and failure to do so was subject to a fine equivalent to $150. Nor did it happen when tbc treatment was legally mandated. Smallpox, of course, has been officially eradicated, but tbc hasn’t. To this day, treatment can be legally forced, regardless of consent. (I was offered a head nurse position on a locked unit established specifically for this.)

Do you want to live in a world where healthcare is simply no longer available to anyone but the one percent because all available resources, both human and material, have been sucked up by the pandemic and the economy can no longer replace what we lost? 

Your reduction ad absurdum is a handy rhetorical tactic, though it misrepresents what I support, which is mandatory vaccination in the workplace. It will certainly be interesting to see what happens in Australia long term.

This isn't 1905. It isn't "interesting" what is happening in australia. It is totalitarian light. If we allow mandates, that sets a precedent. You think its impossible for a government to take advantage of that precedent? History is packed with examples of it. Germany was freed from economic devastation by hitler. step by step, one over reach after another lead to the 3rd riche, ww2 and the holocaust. The bolsheviks, one thing lead to another, then the soviet union leading to mass internment of political prisoners in gulags. mass starvation in ukraine. the people didn't stop it until it collapsed. the people aren't property of the government. We have the right to risk our lives and health and anything else. This country is for the people. We are a free people. We MUST remain that way. We MUST retain control of the government, not the other way around. You think its impossible? Its not. and we can't risk it. a totalitarian state is worse than a pandemic like this. Remember this, the safest place in the world is solitary confinement. Do you want to live there? Safety is not everything. You don't see totalitarianism until its too late. Once its too late, what will you do? We cannot accept government over reach. it must be defeated while it is small. Stop doing their work for them. I hope you change your mind.