Justifying the cost of an Ivy League Nursing Education

[Barbiegirl1229]

How do you guys justify the cost for a program like Yale, Penn or Columbia? Like why would you pick one of those over a smaller, wayyyy cheaper school? Just wondering your thoughts!

[Rose_Queen, BSN, MSN, RN]

I wouldn't. An Ivy League degree doesn't mean in nursing what it would in, say, law. Why take on the cost? Ideally, student loans wouldn't exceed what you could reasonably earn in your first year of nursing (less would be much better), and although I haven't looked into the tuition of an Ivy League school, I'm sure it's pretty darn high.

[beekee]

I wouldn’t. I spent less than $10k on my ADN and BSN combined. I have coworkers with “brand name” degrees and “pay to play” degrees. Neither makes or breaks the nurse. I suppose it might be worth it depending, possibly, on your career goals (as in want to teach nursing at an Ivy League school).

[Horseshoe, BSN, RN]

What many Ivy League schools CAN offer is incredibly generous financial aid. Some of them are way better than most other schools if you can show financial need. The hardest part is getting accepted.

[llg, PhD, RN]

I wouldn't recommend a super-expensive school (Ivy League or elsewhere) for the average student. However, I can imagine some special circumstances in which I would consider it. For example: if that particular school offered a unique concentration or specialty focus that was not available elsewhere and I really wanted that focus ... or to work with a particular researcher/professor, then I might do it.

Also, what type/level of education are we talking about. Entry-level BSN? If that's the case, then the particular school does not matter as much as it does for graduate school. At that level, the education is pretty generic and a good, solid, cheaper school is sufficient for most purposes.

But will that prestigious school give you more/better opportunities for jobs after graduation? Sometimes, that is the case. Some of those fancier, more expensive schools set their students up in the highest quality clinical practicums, internships, research assistant positions, etc. that help those students get a "leg up" on the best jobs after graduation.

You also have to consider the available funding. Sometimes, those prestigious schools have more financial aid to offer. If you get good funding, the "more expensive" school can actually be cheaper -- or -- if not cheaper -- then "better value for the money" as you might get a better education for only a slightly higher price. That makes them worth considering, but not the best choice for everyone.

You also need to consider the social climate. If you are looking to find a spouse, you might find one with better career prospects and/or "old family money" at an Ivy League school. But there is no guarantee of that. The social scene is worth thinking about though as who you hang out with as a young person can influence the decisions you make about your life in general.

How much debt will you have when you graduate. Will you be able to pay that back with relative ease? Or will it cripple you financially for years?

Finally, what are the other options? Are there other reasonable good options that are more practical for you? If you are a good enough student to get admitted to an Ivy League school, I am guessing you have other options. How much difference is there between the Ivy League school you are considering and the other options?

[murseman24, MSN, CRNA]

Not worth it for basic nursing education

[CommunityRNBSN, BSN, RN]

One of my clinical instructors lived and breathed Yale. Yale is an amazing school with an amazing hospital associated with it, and my instructor (at a different school) graduated from there and adored it. However, when I mentioned that someday I might want to go for a DNP, and I floated Yale, she said “Yale School of Nursing is an incredible institution, but there are better ways to spend $80,000!” I loved her honesty because I know how much she loved that school. As someone else said, nursing isn’t the same as getting an MBA— your choice of school won’t actually impact your career. I’m sure there are some great reasons to choose an Ivy school but definitely not if you have to borrow to do it.

[JKL33]

On 10/14/2019 at 9:27 PM, Barbiegirl1229 said:

how do you guys justify the cost for a program like Yale, Penn or Columbia? Like why would you pick one of those over a smaller, wayyyy cheaper school? Just wondering your thoughts!

There's a lot to be said for not picking something only because of perceived superiority. It is true that many non-Ivy places can and do provide a very solid nursing education. One related issue, though, is people's capacity to then justify nearly anything based on the fact that you don't need an Ivy league education. That is to say: True, you don't need an Ivy league education, but there is a lot of non-Ivy stuff you don't need, either--such as very poor quality programs that people seek out because they are fast and cheap and then defend on the basis that "prestige doesn't matter."

All of this goes hand-in-hand with the disregard, disdain, and low esteem in which many employers hold nurses--both facilitating it and justifying it. [Note that I am not defining quality as strictly being Ivy or other well-respected U.]

[FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP]

Why do people need to justify their choice of educational institution? It is THEIR decision and they are the ones will pay for tuition and any loans. Some of them may also come from wealthy families, so they have plenty of money.

My initial (non-nursing) undergrad education was Yale. In mid-life, I changed careers to nursing and completed an ABSN and then the MSN NP program at Johns Hopkins.

Ivy League colleges offer excellent educations and the chance to make contacts and build a network that can help one's career. The people who go to those schools are the people who end up running this country - look at Presidents, Senators, Representatives, Governors, Supreme Court Justices, CEOs - and how many of them have Ivy League educations - a lot.

I'm a California resident and was also accepted by UCLA for nursing, which means I got the lower resident tuition rate. UCLA did not offer very good financial aid. LA is also a very expensive place to live. Hopkins gave me a really good financial aid package and one can live cheaply in Baltimore, so Hopkins was actually cheaper for me than UCLA. About 1/2 of our class was from California, for the same reasons. I knew several ABSN students that had full-ride scholarships. Should they have turned down the chance to go to Hopkins for free?

For the MSN NP, I won a competitive Nurse Corps Scholarship - full ride, plus a living stipend. Students from schools like Hopkins are in a better position to win competitive scholarships like that.

Furthermore, schools like Yale and Hopkins are very committed to having their students actually graduate. If a student is struggling, they bend over backwards to help them. If a student flunks a class, they aren't kicked out of school, but given a way to continue their studies and graduate.

Quality of education - personally I think community college ADN programs do a fine job with their RN programs. Top-ranked schools like Yale and Hopkins also offer an excellent and rigorous education, along with the chance to do clinicals in some of the best hospitals in the world.

As a new grad RN or NP, a big name school can put a job applicant in a better position to get an interview. That is especially true for an NP, as it is MDs who generally hire NPs and they are very aware of the "best" schools. Most of the MDs who interviewed me were up front and said they wanted to meet me because I went to Hopkins.

At least in California, RNs can make great money. We've had discussions here about Kaiser RNs making $200K a year. A friend just sent me RN job listings from Santa Clara County paying $150K to $190K per year - dozens of them. "In California, registered nurses (RNs) earn more than in any other state at $102,700, and they enjoy an above-average job outlook thanks to greater availability of medical coverage and advances in medicine. It is expected that some 20,637 new RN positions will become available in CA in 2019 . . . "

https://www.nursingprocess.org/rn-salary/california/

That type of pay is adequate to financially justify the cost of an Ivy League or equivalent school.

[FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP]

Why do people need to justify their choice of educational institution? It is THEIR decision and they are the ones who will pay for tuition and any loans. Some of them may also come from wealthy families, so they have plenty of money. People have a right to spend their own money as they see fit.

Do you expect people to justify why they bought a Mercedes instead of a Chevy?

My initial (non-nursing) undergrad education was Yale. In mid-life, I changed careers to nursing and completed an ABSN and then the MSN NP program at Johns Hopkins.

Ivy League colleges offer excellent educations and the chance to make contacts and build a network that can help one's career. The people who go to those schools are the people who end up running this country - look at Presidents, Senators, Representatives, Governors, Supreme Court Justices, CEOs - and how many of them have Ivy League educations - a lot.

The same is true of nursing. The top schools are not focused on turning out RNs who are going to floor nurses for the next 30 years. They are clear that their goal is to train the next generation of nursing leaders and educators. RNs can and do become senior managers and executives, even CEOs of hospitals. There are also RNs that become senior government officials helping to craft healthcare policy. A nurse, who was also a Rear Admiral, was appointed Surgeon General of the United States. RNs also earn PhDs and teach nursing, even becoming Deans of nursing schools. (Note: I am not putting down floor nurses - lord knows I couldn't do that job, but if my goal was to be a floor nurse, then no, I wouldn't pay for an expensive education)

I'm a California resident and was also accepted by UCLA for nursing, which means I got the lower resident tuition rate. UCLA did not offer very good financial aid. LA is also a very expensive place to live. Hopkins gave me a really good financial aid package and one can live cheaply in Baltimore, so Hopkins was actually cheaper for me than UCLA. About 1/2 of our class was from California, for the same reasons. I knew several ABSN students that had full-ride scholarships. Should they have turned down the chance to go to Hopkins for free?

For the MSN NP, I won a competitive Nurse Corps Scholarship - full ride, plus a living stipend. Students from schools like Hopkins are in a better position to win competitive scholarships like that.

Furthermore, schools like Yale and Hopkins are very committed to having their students actually graduate. If a student is struggling, they bend over backwards to help them. If a student flunks a class, they aren't kicked out of school, but given a way to continue their studies and graduate.

Quality of education - personally I think community college ADN programs do a fine job with their RN programs. Top-ranked schools like Yale and Hopkins also offer an excellent and rigorous education, along with the chance to do clinicals in some of the best hospitals in the world.

As a new grad RN or NP, a big name school can put a job applicant in a better position to get an interview. That is especially true for an NP, as it is MDs who generally hire NPs and they are very aware of the "best" schools. Most of the MDs who interviewed me were up front and said they wanted to meet me because I went to Hopkins.

At least in California, RNs can make great money. We've had discussions here about Kaiser RNs making $200K a year. A friend just sent me RN job listings from Santa Clara County paying $150K to $190K per year - dozens of them. "In California, registered nurses (RNs) earn more than in any other state at $102,700, and they enjoy an above-average job outlook thanks to greater availability of medical coverage and advances in medicine. It is expected that some 20,637 new RN positions will become available in CA in 2019 . . . "

https://www.nursingprocess.org/rn-salary/california/

That type of pay is adequate to financially justify the cost of an Ivy League or equivalent school.

[Sassy-RN]

Everyone takes the same boards!!

[Rionoir, ADN, RN]

You’re going to make the same money as everyone else. You might be able to pay off your loans if you get a good job, but you’re still spending WAY more money than necessary and it isn’t going to get you a better salary. The only justification for that kind of money is if you are a person who needs to tell people you went to Yale.