Is someone justified in harassing someone to tell them if they got vaccinated or not?

[DesiDani]

Say you got vaccinated and choose not to stand in the middle of the street to tell the world. Yet friend or coworker keeps nagging you to tell them if you did or not 

[guest1163268]

1 hour ago, toomuchbaloney said:

I think that's good. 

I am retired.  I encourage my circle of influence to vaccinate and practice safe mitigation behaviors in public.  I live in the very very conservative interior of Alaska.  My family in the lower 48 is in conservative Nebraska and Michigan and Wyoming and Colorado.  Fewer than 50% of the white population in this region is vaccinated.  The native population has a higher rate of vaccination.  You've maybe seen some videos of aggressive people in Fairbanks because of masks. That's because that kind of angry toxic masculinity  behavior is common in a state that leads in domestic violence and rape statistics. That means that when I mention vaccination in gatherings of people it is inevitable that I will encounter at least one person who will become obnoxious on the topic.  

I  encourage vaccination and the minute someone shows their disinterest in the pandemic and vaccines I let it go. 

Here, however, I'm responding to nurses who shouldn't be believing unsupported suspicion instead of the facts and evidence. You might change their minds...

Are we using the wrong description in conservative? Could it possibly be that they have such limited critical thinking abilities because of lack of intelligence and education, that they adopt what might be considered conservative behaviors because they actually have no choice through inability to adapt or formulate solutions so they are forced to follow limited patterns of behaviors? It's like having reduced ROM because of injury or disease. 

One could describe that as conservative ROM, when it's actually a result of a defective limb? Defective brains, will produce limited behaviors, emotions and interactions, that could be misinterpreted for conservatism? 

[toomuchbaloney]

@Curious1997 I call them conservatives because that is how they self identify and I'm referencing a larger generic group.  Sometimes I may reference a smaller subset of (self identified) conservatives as indoctrinated or cult members.  I try to use words and language intentionally. 

[toomuchbaloney]

On 7/22/2021 at 9:10 PM, underpressure said:

100%. I'm not opposed to vaccines at all. In fact, I'm in favor of them. I've administered hundreds. But there isn't enough data at this point for the FDA to officially approve any of the covid vaccines, and I read in one article in the British Medical Journal about vaccine efficacy, that they are continuing the trial until 2022. Also, I know some people think that VAERS is somehow completely worthless, but there are enough adverse reactions reported that give plenty of rational people concern. 

Being hesitant does not mean one is "amoral". 

https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/01/04/peter-doshi-pfizer-and-modernas-95-effective-vaccines-we-need-more-details-and-the-raw-data/

I'm not sure that I've seen people saying that VAERS is worthless.  It is nothing more than a raw data base and tool. People inferring risk or harm, from that data, without proper context ate behaving dangerously. 

[JKL33]

9 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

I'm not certain how not entertaining their belief in fabrication and suspicions is handing them fodder. 

Me neither. I gave the example that was relevant to that comment.

I know there are people who are going to knock themselves out following the most nonsensical rabbit trails to come to actual conspiracy theory conclusions and then spread them around and foment distrust and rejection of public health efforts. And they are beyond damaging in a situation like this; I agree. But I also believe that there are a number of different/other people who don't know who to trust for more genuine reasons, one of those being because it appears to them that our authorities are also capable of a lack of truth and transparency when it suits their agendas.

It isn't a good look. It raises the concerns of otherwise well-meaning citizens and also is fodder for more nefarious factions.

9 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

I'm still stunned by the numbers and am a bit sad that after 18 months of worse suffering than was necessary, my impatience with obvious disinformation is so troubling for people.  

Your impatience is troubling in the public health context. Public health has the distinction of having to really get in there and play the game on the turf that exists as long as is necessary until secondary measures help turn the tide, which may be a very slow process. Public health doesn't exist anymore at the point that its leaders and troops on the ground break down and start to believe that character attacks (or campaigns based on pointing out problems with people's character) are ever going to be highly and rapidly successful. Public health uses a lot of tools and approaches that wouldn't be as necessary if it were actually effective to just warn everyone that people are stupid, evil and dangerous.

But I do understand some of your beliefs and emotions and impatience. From a personal--not public health--standpoint.

[Kerivara]

Going forward this becomes easier.  Want to go to nursing school?  Please bring proof of your vaccination against Covid-19 as a part of your admission packet, as you do for several other vaccines.  No?  No problem, but this probably isn't the field for you.  Good luck.

[toomuchbaloney]

2 hours ago, JKL33 said:

Me neither. I gave the example that was relevant to that comment.

I know there are people who are going to knock themselves out following the most nonsensical rabbit trails to come to actual conspiracy theory conclusions and then spread them around and foment distrust and rejection of public health efforts. And they are beyond damaging in a situation like this; I agree. But I also believe that there are a number of different/other people who don't know who to trust for more genuine reasons, one of those being because it appears to them that our authorities are also capable of a lack of truth and transparency when it suits their agendas.

It isn't a good look. It raises the concerns of otherwise well-meaning citizens and also is fodder for more nefarious factions.

Your impatience is troubling in the public health context. Public health has the distinction of having to really get in there and play the game on the turf that exists as long as is necessary until secondary measures help turn the tide, which may be a very slow process. Public health doesn't exist anymore at the point that its leaders and troops on the ground break down and start to believe that character attacks (or campaigns based on pointing out problems with people's character) are ever going to be highly and rapidly successful. Public health uses a lot of tools and approaches that wouldn't be as necessary if it were actually effective to just warn everyone that people are stupid, evil and dangerous.

But I do understand some of your beliefs and emotions and impatience. From a personal--not public health--standpoint.

A retired RN pushing back against covid vaccine ignorance and disinformation is not the biggest concern of public health in this country right now.  It's not even in the top 5 public health concerns. 

[JKL33]

Just now, toomuchbaloney said:

A retired RN pushing back against covid vaccine ignorance and disinformation is not the biggest concern of public health in this country right now.  It's not even in the top 5 public health concerns. 

Agreed!

You make it so easy for me to find common ground when you post things like this that I never remotely implied in the first place.

Come on....please?

[Psychnursehopeful, ASN, RN]

The topic is truly a loaded question. Harassment is always wrong. Therefore it cannot be justified. The picture or meme, on the other hand is a more reasonable question. "Should you share your vaccine status?" 

Yes if you work in direct patient care. The patients, including their family and larger community should know. Just like any other mandated vaccination. 

[toomuchbaloney]

1 hour ago, JKL33 said:

Agreed!

You make it so easy for me to find common ground when you post things like this that I never remotely implied in the first place.

Come on....please?

You said my stance was troubling in a public health context...how troubling do you think? Do you think that retired health professionals pushing hard against unfounded fears and concerns about the vaccines is in the top 5 public health concerns?

[MunoRN, RN]

15 hours ago, underpressure said:

100%. I'm not opposed to vaccines at all. In fact, I'm in favor of them. I've administered hundreds. But there isn't enough data at this point for the FDA to officially approve any of the covid vaccines, and I read in one article in the British Medical Journal about vaccine efficacy, that they are continuing the trial until 2022. Also, I know some people think that VAERS is somehow completely worthless, but there are enough adverse reactions reported that give plenty of rational people concern. 

Being hesitant does not mean one is "amoral". 

https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/01/04/peter-doshi-pfizer-and-modernas-95-effective-vaccines-we-need-more-details-and-the-raw-data/

I feel like I was pretty clear that of the various reasons someone may not get vaccinated, lacking empathy for others was a subgroup, not the entire group, there were even bullet points to make that more clear.  If you disagree that some people may choose not to get vaccinated because protecting others isn't enough of an incentive, then feel free to contest that, but please don't intentionally misinterpret what I've said.

There isn't enough long-term efficacy data yet to complete the approval process, but they aren't still waiting to see if vaccination is beneficial, that's been well established.

VAERS are not reports of adverse reactions, it's a wide net system that tracks all health events that occur in the months after vaccination to potentially detect adverse reactions.

[speedynurse, ADN, BSN, RN, EMT-P]

On 7/20/2021 at 2:13 PM, JKL33 said:

I'm in "real discussion" mode, here, not argumentative spirit. ? I'm serious here when I say.... Just because some public official said something does not clearly mean anything about why some hesitant Americans are not getting vaccinated. I will admit that it's possible that in making that kind of statement the official was covering one of many possible reasons that maybe someone might be hesitant no matter how likely/unlikely. That doesn't mean it's a huge problem or even likely.

I can't find a lot of info about this. I was looking around last night after I first read your comment. I did find this one article:

https://www.ozarksfirst.com/local-news/local-news-local-news/ozarks-healthcare-is-offering-confidential-vaccinations/

So here's my problem. There is an implication being made and an accommodation being offered. The implication is that disapproving fellow citizens pose some kind of real threat in regard to all of this and the threat may keep people from being vaccinated, so an accommodation is necessary. The accommodations offered are: 1) a private room in which to be vaccinated (already exists for innumerable other healthcare encounters) or 2) being vaccinated in a parking lot.

I'm not agreeing with antivaxxers, their anti-vax choice, their anger, their disregard, any of it. What I am saying, and am fairly consistent about across a variety of topics, is that X's drama and BS is no better than Y's. Drama and BS rarely truly helps anyone's cause.

If someone is afraid to be vaccinated because their anti-vax neighbor or family member might terrorize them, well I'm glad to know that their vaccine can be administered in a parking lot to "protect" them from the antivaxxers.

I will say this: I hope this is an issue that said public officials know something about. Because if they're being disingenuous with their public statements it will only be more fuel for the fire and more fodder for anti-vaxers' derision.

I am not agreeing or disagreeing with either side. However, I have seen COVID and the entire vaccine issues divide America and families (mine included) and it’s disappointing that both sides can be incredibly judgmental and argumentative. It has really made me disappointed that critical thinking has fallen by the wayside in both groups and even simply logical thinking and common sense. 

[Leader25, ASN, BSN, RN]

Only if the other person accepts me harassing them back as to why as the song goes:" someone comes on the tv telling me how white my shirts should be,but he cant be a man cause he doesn't smoke the same cigarettes as me."