Is the RN--->BSN push a clever way to get older nurses out of the way

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As in certain "Baby Boomers" who wont retire? Wont we NEED a faster RN producing mechanism (hello again, ADN programs!) in order to provide enough nurses to care for this huge group of people due to retire soon?? Just wondering...

Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
It's still worth it to find out; I went back and got my BSN where I was deemed "permanently" disabled; I am working as a RN part time (4 days a pay period) and my disability has been protected and I recently qualified for more credits for working and have been offered assistance; I plan to take as much help as possible, despite my permanent disability status.

As I said before.....I have already been through this rodeo, and I am not going to be able to work again.

​Let's let this drop. Please.

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I do want to be clear that I don't think all ADN (or any other degree) are selfish in their motives, and to some extent I think we all are, my comment (and largely, all my comments) are directed at the "big picture". In my opinion, that big picture should be focused on the profession and the patients, not the individual.

So ADN nurses who may have given years of their lives to the profession, who have furthered their education through on the job training, continuing education, and by becoming certified in their specialties, have not given enough to patients and to the profession, and can be considered selfish because for whatever reason they did not pursue a BSN? You think they didn't focus on the "big picture?".

You are free to focus on your idea of the "big picture." And other nurses have the right to focus on their idea of the "big picture."

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Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.
So ADN nurses who may have given years of their lives to the profession, who have furthered their education through on the job training, continuing education, and by becoming certified in their specialties, have not given enough to patients and to the profession, and can be considered selfish because for whatever reason they did not pursue a BSN? You think they didn't focus on the "big picture?".

Absolutely not, at least in my humble opinion. From what I recall there is evidence that speciality certifications also improve outcomes, as does experience.

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Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.
So ADN nurses who may have given years of their lives to the profession, who have furthered their education through on the job training, continuing education, and by becoming certified in their specialties, have not given enough to patients and to the profession, and can be considered selfish because for whatever reason they did not pursue a BSN? You think they didn't focus on the "big picture?".

You are free to focus on your idea of the "big picture." And other nurses have the right to focus on their idea of the "big picture."[/QU

I really don't know how many people will lose their jobs or not be able to get a job because of the lack of a BSN, but I do know that I was told (by a doc) in 1971 to not bother getting ADN - go straight to BSN and I was able to work where I wanted from the get-go. It's just cloyingly annoying to read posts of ADN's who can't get work, who are forced in older ages to get BSN, who have lost a job to BSN, etc., to complain about being unappreciated, discriminated against and other nonsense when the Big Picture indicated, long-ago, decades in the past, that to keep up with the future, one needed a BSN if you wanted to be SURE of getting, keeping your job. It's not that one's efforts are not appreciated or that certifications aren't important, but forecasting the future marketplace is part of the Big Picture so don't complain if you missed it.

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So ADN nurses who may have given years of their lives to the profession, who have furthered their education through on the job training, continuing education, and by becoming certified in their specialties, have not given enough to patients and to the profession, and can be considered selfish because for whatever reason they did not pursue a BSN? You think they didn't focus on the "big picture?".

You are free to focus on your idea of the "big picture." And other nurses have the right to focus on their idea of the "big picture."[/QU

I really don't know how many people will lose their jobs or not be able to get a job because of the lack of a BSN, but I do know that I was told (by a doc) in 1971 to not bother getting ADN - go straight to BSN and I was able to work where I wanted from the get-go. It's just cloyingly annoying to read posts of ADN's who can't get work, who are forced in older ages to get BSN, who have lost a job to BSN, etc., to complain about being unappreciated, discriminated against and other nonsense when the Big Picture indicated, long-ago, decades in the past, that to keep up with the future, one needed a BSN if you wanted to be SURE of getting, keeping your job. It's not that one's efforts are not appreciated or that certifications aren't important, but forecasting the future marketplace is part of the Big Picture so don't complain if you missed it.

The fact that people have been saying since 1971 that ADNs where on the way out only goes to show how wrong they were. The educational requirements of the field are changing, but with glacial speed compared to what so-called experts have been predicting for the past 50 years.

You can't blame people for not taking the skip-the-ADN advice seriously when so little of what was predicted has actually come to pass.

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Specializes in Pediatrics, Emergency, Trauma.

You can't blame people for not taking the skip-the-ADN advice seriously when so little of what was predicted has actually come to pass.

But then they cannot blame others who actually went for it...including ADNs before them that did so...:whistling:

I sat in the first week of my ASN program when it was revealed that 4 years was going to produce an associates degree...so were many of my cohorts; when I ended up not succeeding the first time, I took a HUGE risk in turning my back to try again and get the ASN, and decided to get a BSN...I ended up going the LPN route, but my goal was always to get a bachelors in nursing, and I did so to my benefit.

I do feel that an RN is an RN, however, those days are over as we don't control the market...I personally don't see the need to push valued educators from the beside; but the market can because they are the same amount to valued bedside educators at the bedside in large populous areas, and that's where it has effectively been the issue of the BSN push.

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Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
I really don't know how many people will lose their jobs or not be able to get a job because of the lack of a BSN, but I do know that I was told (by a doc) in 1971 to not bother getting ADN - go straight to BSN and I was able to work where I wanted from the get-go. It's just cloyingly annoying to read posts of ADN's who can't get work, who are forced in older ages to get BSN, who have lost a job to BSN, etc., to complain about being unappreciated, discriminated against and other nonsense when the Big Picture indicated, long-ago, decades in the past, that to keep up with the future, one needed a BSN if you wanted to be SURE of getting, keeping your job. It's not that one's efforts are not appreciated or that certifications aren't important, but forecasting the future marketplace is part of the Big Picture so don't complain if you missed it.

I don't think the anecdote about what the doctor told you in 1971 was an accurate harbinger of what nursing has been hoping to become over the decades, at least not in my area and experience. I have always found doctors to be mostly pragmatic. They like those nurses who help them do their job by taking the best care of their patients and don't spend a lot of time scrutinizing their educational background.

The health care system could not have functioned without ADN nurses who have been the backbone of the RN workforce for decades. Nobody threatened their jobs or told them to walk if they didn't have a BSN. The push for BSN came from the ANA and subsequent advocacy groups like the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation.

Even now I rarely hear that a nurse has been fired for the sole reason that he or she holds an ADN vs a BSN. Maybe things were different in your geographical location but all the research I've done on my own indicates that hospitals and doctors were not the driving force behind the BSN entry-to-practice campaign. I wouldn't want to focus on the ANA and the AACN for predicting anything, as so far they've never been right in their most frequent predictions, that being their nursing shortage predictions.

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Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
In turn I resent your attitude that you consider yourself more important than your patients and the profession.

IMO you have is backwards. It is those who are advocating for BSN as entry to practice who consider themselves more important than their patients and the profession.

In my view one of the worst things that could happen to nursing and our patients would be to eliminate the diversity of people that the ADN programs bring into the field.

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Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.
IMO you have is backwards. It is those who are advocating for BSN as entry to practice who consider themselves more important than their patients and the profession.

In my view one of the worst things that could happen to nursing and our patients would be to eliminate the diversity of people that the ADN programs bring into the field.

Diversity is important but can you really argue that it more important than outcomes? Do you have any evidence that transitioning to a BSN entry would eliminate that diversity?

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Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.

The fact that people have been saying since 1971 that ADNs where on the way out only goes to show how wrong they were. The educational requirements of the field are changing, but with glacial speed compared to what so-called experts have been predicting for the past 50 years.

You can't blame people for not taking the skip-the-ADN advice seriously when so little of what was predicted has actually come to pass.

I'm not blaming people for taking the ADN route - only for complaining about being forced out of jobs, forced to go back to school, etc . when the writing was on the wall a long time ago. If you didn't even KNOW about the wall, then you can't expect others to take that kind of whining seriously. If you've gotten away without degree, I don't think any less of your ability to do lots of jobs in nursing. I don't see other professions whine about their educational standards. And you can't blame the ANA for the demands for BSNs. When the supply outstrips the demand, the employers can pick and choose , and you can bet they're going to take the 4 year people when they have that luxury. ADN programs have contributed mightily to the over-supply of RN's.

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Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
Diversity is important but can you really argue that it more important than outcomes?

I don't need a study to have a pretty good idea of how good patient outcomes would be if half of all the RNs were eliminated.

That said I have yet to see any compelling evidence that entering practice with an ADN as they are currently educated results in worse outcomes for patients.

Do you have any evidence that transitioning to a BSN entry would eliminate that diversity?

I have the same amount of evidence you have that it would be preserved. Seems pretty common sense to me. Limit access to RN practice only to those who can afford and have the opportunity to attend and pay for a university education and we will end up with a different kind of person coming to nursing. I think we would be much more like physicians, pharmacy or physical therapy (shudder) in the kind of people nursing attracts.

I often wonder what kind of people would spend 4-5 years earning a degree that costs I (in my state) around $65K only to get a job that pays $20/hour and where hard physical labor, getting dirty, assaulted are a regular part of your day? I think it's pretty much two types. Those who are on their way to bigger and better things like grad school, and those who will be very unhappy and unsatisfied in nursing when reality hits.

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The last time I checked 60% of all RNs were ADNs. Since you have a majority why don't you use that to your advantage? Get all ADNs to join the ANA, elect leaders sympathetic to your position that there is no difference in nursing outcomes based on education levels, and finance the research to prove it. Use your newfound political influence to get Congress to recognize ADN as the entry point for nursing and lobby state boards to provide a different NCLEX for BSNs. Don't think you can get employers to change their mind as long as this over saturation exists but you can make a start. Or you can continue to bemoan changes that you may have some control over if you exert the effort now. I am not being sarcastic when I wish you good luck, it's going to take a ton of effort and work.

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