Is the RN--->BSN push a clever way to get older nurses out of the way

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As in certain "Baby Boomers" who wont retire? Wont we NEED a faster RN producing mechanism (hello again, ADN programs!) in order to provide enough nurses to care for this huge group of people due to retire soon?? Just wondering...

Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.
they both passed NCLEX....

The NCLEX is a minimum competency exam. It does not mean the products are equal it just means they both are minimally competent.

Do you feel that the goal of nursing education should be minimum competency?

The outcome studies demonstrate consistently that the level of nursing education is correlated with patient outcomes, highlighting that there is a difference in products.

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they both passed NCLEX....

NCLEX and the RN you get when you pass it are not terminal degrees and are certainly not indicative of mastery of nursing practice. The RN license is the minimal -- minimal-- level for registered nurse practice; if people with higher education can pass it, so can people with less. As my grandmother would say, "What can hold a lot can hold a little." Comparing nurses with different levels of education based on a lowest common denominator is meaningless.

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NCLEX and the RN you get when you pass it are not terminal degrees and are certainly not indicative of mastery of nursing practice. The RN license is the minimal -- minimal-- level for registered nurse practice; if people with higher education can pass it, so can people with less. As my grandmother would say, "What can hold a lot can hold a little." Comparing nurses with different levels of education based on a lowest common denominator is meaningless.

Sounds like you are disregarding the importance of experience-based learning.

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Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
I am confused by this post? Is there a point you were trying to make?
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Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.

The physics was AP physics in high school. All the rest were in my BS program, four years in college (nursing major). The first two semesters (not quarters) of chemistry were a lab course, meaning 2-3 hours of lecture and a 2-hour lab each week; organic was just lecture. Also two semesters of English, one semester each of anatomy (lab course), bio (also lab), microbio (lab), physiology (lab), anthro, sociology, psychology, and economics. And clinical 8h/3x/wk for the 2,3,4 year, plus 3-6 hours/week of nursing lecture.

((Oh, and I had a mandatory gym class 2x/wk freshman year. Which I skipped almost all year until May, and then made it up going to various classes (swimming, dance, tennis, and I can't think what all else) in every spare moment to make it up. Sheesh.))

To the person who asked if an RN-to-BSN without this much education is inferior to a nursing bachelor's degree with it, well, what do you think? I think you can guess my answer.

I sincerely hope we're not going to get into a "My BSN is better than your BSN" competition. I am hopefully going to be accepted into an RN-BSN online that is certified by Midstates and CCNE. It's not one of those BSN-mill programs. Am I going to have to do some of the stuff you listed? No. I CLEPPED out of A&P and Micro. My composition class was in a foreign language. I have several foreign language classes under my belt; took 2 POLI-SCI courses; 3 history courses; and, a music course. Chemistry isn't required by this program. Nutrition, psych, sociology were taught at the local university during my nursing program.

​If I manage to get in and graduate, I'll be more than proud to hang that diploma on my wall.

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Specializes in Critical Care.

The point is both ADN and BSN must pass the same NCLEX to work as an RN. If the BSN is so much better than an ADN why don't the BSN nurses take a different, higher boards? It makes no sense to me. We both take the same boards to work as an RN and even more importantly we do the same job working side by side, yet an ADN is treated as inferior. For what it's worth neither my coworkers nor my patients have ever asked me if I have my BSN.

Personally I chose an ADN because it was quicker, cheaper and more practical, and allowed me to start working sooner! I have no desire to go back to school and take out student loans for a BSN. However if my hospital was willing to actually pay for a BSN I would get it, but not when it is going to put me further in debt! For me I need to save my money for retirement, an emergency fund and to pay off my mortgage. Frankly I would rather secure my present and future than backpedaling by taking out student loan debt, which will require I work even longer to pay it off and divert that money from my personal needs and goals!

Where I work they are still hiring ADN's and another competitor is as well. Thank God not all the hospitals are requiring the BSN! I will take my chances and work toward my personal needs and goals. If I'm forced to get my BSN in the future I will deal with it then and make the choice that is best for me. Perhaps I will be at a place where my mortgage is paid off and I will have the option to retire early rather than going back to school if it comes to that!

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Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.
The point is both ADN and BSN both must pass the same NCLEX to work as an RN.

Personally I chose an ADN because it was a quicker, cheaper and more practical and allowed me to start working sooner! I have no desire to go back to school and take out student loans for a BSN. For me I need to save my money for retirement, an emergency fund and to pay off my mortgage!

The boards are a minimum competency exam for entry to practice. Should they be more difficult? Perhaps but that isn't the point of this. Should nursing strive for minimum competency?

You response about why you chose ADN is a typical one. It demonstrates that students choose the way that best for them, not the way that is best for patients, or for nursing as a profession.

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Specializes in Critical Care.

Since the US is all about freedom and independence and chooses not to offer universal healthcare and college like the majority of western nations, one must consider what they can afford to do! If money was not an option and healthcare and college were free and affordable, I'm sure many more people would choose to go back to school!

Until that becomes the case, it is foolhardy to rush back to school as that is not a guarantee of a job! Even if it were, accidents and illnesses could still occur that would leave one without a job or health insurance or the money to pay back student loans. The old fear of becoming a homeless bag lady is being replaced by becoming a senior citizen having your social security garnished to pay off student loans! I do not intend to let either scenario happen to me!

I just took care of a patient who had been promoted and with that was required to get her MA LIS which she gladly did. Unfortunately it was a govt job and layoffs happened soon after and she was never able to use her degree again and ended up working low paying $10/hr jobs till she became disabled. I had taken care of her before and she updated me that she had finally gotten her student loans forgiven after many repeat letters sent by her doctor for them to discharge her debt, even though she had already been declared disabled and was receiving social security disability. Unfortunately this soon left another problem her loans were over $50,000 and now she was told she owed $15,000 in state and federal taxes as forgiven student loans are taxed as ordinary income. She obviously didn't have the money, but now she would need an attorney to prove she was insolvent!

No one is speaking up about the dangers of student loans. Many high school and college students haven't received even basic personal finance education and yet they are being encouraged to take out student loans that may leave them living in poverty and debt servitude. Even many BSN's are unable to find a job and nursing was always promoted as a secure field.

If hospitals and the govt want BSN's let them put their money where their mouth is and pay for it! Until things change it would be very foolish to rush off and go back to school if that will put you or your family in a dangerous financial situation. Student loan debt is unlike any other debt as there are no bankruptcy options and it is one of the few cases where your wages, tax returns, even social security and disability can be garnished for payment!

There are over 100,000 people on social security being garnished for unpaid student loans. But you don't hear about all the poor people struggling with student loan debt because they don't have any clout! The big guns, the banks and colleges keep right on promoting education and student loads hiding the risks! I resent your self righteous attitude that we should all be going back to school just because you could afford to! I'm not going to endanger my future for the good of the profession! I do what I can afford to by keeping up with current info re CEU's and certifications and I encourage everyone else to do only what they can afford to do, not be pressured into putting themselves in harm's way for the good of the profession! The profession isn't going to feed them or keep a roof over their heads, yet alone repay the student loans!

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Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.
I resent your self righteous attitude that we should all be going back to school just because you could afford to! I'm not going to endanger my future for the good of the profession!

In turn I resent your attitude that you consider yourself more important than your patients and the profession.

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Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
The point is both ADN and BSN must pass the same NCLEX to work as an RN. If the BSN is so much better than an ADN why don't the BSN nurses take a different, higher boards? It makes no sense to me.

That is just one aspect of the all-around failure of the mandatory BSN entry-to-practice campaign started in 1965. There are many reasons for it's failure, but nurses themselves cast blame on other nurses alone, which has been shown to move the ball backward in the overall campaign to have this happen. An analysis done and published by the ANA stated that unity among nurses was the essential ingredient without which BSN ETP cannot happen. The 2003 study and subsequent "patient outcomes" war further damaged this unity, although I am sure based on the year of it's publication and the fact that Aiken used data from a prior study of staffing that the study was intended to help the campaign regroup after the repeal of the North Dakota law. I don't think most people would agree that it is selfish to follow the path you have.

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Specializes in Critical Care.
In turn I resent your attitude that you consider yourself more important than your patients and the profession.

There are doctors that feel the same way about you and other FNP's that chose the nursing route rather than going to medical school and doing the same thing that doctors with an MD degree do! It is ironic that the same thing you accuse me of could be said for you as well! But the difference is that an RN is an RN whether an ADN or BSN, while an FNP is not the same thing, nor do you take the same boards as an MD; yet in essence you both do the same job! Why has this been allowed, not because of patient care, but because of a shortage of doctors and the cost benefits, as FNP as generally paid about half of MD's. Also I'm surprised you don't mention having a DNP because you are all about patient care and the profession!

But regardless I don't understand why you feel it is your place to try to coerce other RN's to get a BSN when we are not even in the same playing field. We don't even do the same job! I bet many RN's would love to go back to school to be an NP, but circumstances prevent them from doing so. Why stop at demanding a BSN, why not demand that everyone get an MSN for the good of patient care and the profession. Who made you judge and jury! Maybe you should run as the president of the ANA! I suggest you focus on yourself and stop trying to tell others what to do with their lives!

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