Is the RN--->BSN push a clever way to get older nurses out of the way

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As in certain "Baby Boomers" who wont retire? Wont we NEED a faster RN producing mechanism (hello again, ADN programs!) in order to provide enough nurses to care for this huge group of people due to retire soon?? Just wondering...

Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.
What are you thinking would be different, other than the name?

They are not equal products now. If there was research that demonstrated what courses needed to be added to ADN programs to make them on-par with outcomes from BSN programs then those ADN programs would become BSN programs would they not?

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Specializes in Critical Care.

About $25k just for a brand name, that's why many wouldn't.

And there's no evidence they aren't equal products now in terms of the nursing care they produce. There is evidence to suggest they weren't equal 25 years ago.

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Specializes in Critical Care.
They are not equal products now. If there was research that demonstrated what courses needed to be added to ADN programs to make them on-par with outcomes from BSN programs then those ADN programs would become BSN programs would they not?

As a related issue I agree that we don't know what it was about the programs nurses attended in the studies that produced better outcomes, and since not all BSN programs are identical we don't really know that all current BSN programs actually include the characteristics that produced better outcomes in the study.

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Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.
About $25k just for a brand name, that's why many wouldn't.

And there's no evidence they aren't equal products now in terms of the nursing care they produce. There is evidence to suggest they weren't equal 25 years ago.

Do you think that the current ADN programs will increase the number of credits required to graduate without increasing the cost of the program?

Can you link to the study data that demonstrates the average years experience of the nurses in the studies was >=25?

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Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.
As a related issue I agree that we don't know what it was about the programs nurses attended in the studies that produced better outcomes, and since not all BSN programs are identical we don't really know that all current BSN programs actually include the characteristics that produced better outcomes in the study.

Absolutely we agree on this, we just know that in aggregate they do. Ideally the we could keep the good ADN programs, add some focused study, call them BSNs, and drop all the poor BSN programs.

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Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
About $25k just for a brand name, that's why many wouldn't.

And there's no evidence they aren't equal products now in terms of the nursing care they produce. There is evidence to suggest they weren't equal 25 years ago.

I don't know what the costs are in other states. In my state a traditional 4 year BSN at a state university is right about $60k in tuition alone. Most students will have to live away from home to attend a university so that will add considerably to the cost. This of course puts the university BSN out of reach of many kinds of people like stay at home moms, veterans who were enlisted (as opposed to officers), factory workers, farmers, and other blue collar types.

An ADN from our community college system runs about $7k total cost. Add to that that most people in the state live within reasonable driving distance of a community college so living at home can cut the total cost drastically. Obviously the ADN programs are very doable for the exact kinds of people for whom a university BSN is out of reach. This I suspect has a lot to do for the current push for BSNs.

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I am not sure I follow: who can't be trusted? Perspective students? On a profession level, no I don't think perspective students can be trusted to make the "right" decision, as not only do they not have the knowledge to make the decision, but many look for the cheapest, fastest, and easiest option.

Why are the decisions that prospective students make of such concern to you? Did you not make decisions about your own nursing education?

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Specializes in Critical Care.
Do you think that the current ADN programs will increase the number of credits required to graduate without increasing the cost of the program?

Since the cost is typically per credit, yes the cost would go up, but since the per credit cost of an ADN program is exponentially less than that of a BSN program they would still be significantly less expensive. And that assumes BSN granting institutions would be willing to only charge a per credit fee for the difference in total credits, which wasn't something the BSN programs in my state were willing to offer.

Can you link to the study data that demonstrates the average years experience of the nurses in the studies was >=25?

As far as I can tell they didn't include that data. Feel free to substitute an average age of 30 if you like, which would put the average graduation year at 1987 (or 27 years ago).

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Specializes in Critical Care.
Absolutely we agree on this, we just know that in aggregate they do. Ideally the we could keep the good ADN programs, add some focused study, call them BSNs, and drop all the poor BSN programs.

I agree on keeping the good ADN programs, adding whatever curriculum/requirements necessary, but I don't think we need to change their name. You seem to think that ADN graduates are ashamed that they are 'only' ADN grads and because you're looking out for them they should be called BSN grads. I'm sure they appreciate your concern but not all of them are that vain.

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Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.
I agree on keeping the good ADN programs, adding whatever curriculum/requirements necessary, but I don't think we need to change their name. You seem to think that ADN graduates are ashamed that they are 'only' ADN grads and because you're looking out for them they should be called BSN grads. I'm sure they appreciate your concern but not all of them are that vain.

It is not about the vanity of it, while I can imagine that there are those out there with degree envy, from my perspective it is about the practicality of it: without the "vanity title" there are nurses out there that will have a progressive difficulty finding a job, maintaining a job, or advancing their career.

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Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
It is not about the vanity of it, while I can imagine that there are those out there with degree envy,

My observation is that degree envy is rampant. It appears to me that it is especially rampant among nursing organizations like the ANA and AACN.

from my perspective it is about the practicality of it: without the "vanity title" there are nurses out there that will have a progressive difficulty finding a job, maintaining a job, or advancing their career.

You are probably right. The irony is that their difficulty is directly related to degree envy.

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they both passed NCLEX....

We are not taking about two equal products. If we were there would be only one entry.
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