Is the RN--->BSN push a clever way to get older nurses out of the way

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As in certain "Baby Boomers" who wont retire? Wont we NEED a faster RN producing mechanism (hello again, ADN programs!) in order to provide enough nurses to care for this huge group of people due to retire soon?? Just wondering...

Specializes in Critical Care.
Diversity is important but can you really argue that it more important than outcomes? Do you have any evidence that transitioning to a BSN entry would eliminate that diversity?

You don't think cutting the nursing workforce by as much as one half would affect outcomes?

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Cutting the supply of new nurses by 50% is exactly what nursing needs at this juncture. There has never been a nursing shortage, only a shortage of nurses willing to work under the prevailing work conditions and wages offered. No patient in America would go uncared for if you shut every nursing school down for 5 years. We have way too many nurses now, we need fewer not more.

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Specializes in Pediatrics, Emergency, Trauma.
Cutting the supply of new nurses by 50% is exactly what nursing needs at this juncture. There has never been a nursing shortage, only a shortage of nurses willing to work under the prevailing work conditions and wages offered. No patient in America would go uncared for if you shut every nursing school down for 5 years. We have way too many nurses now, we need fewer not more.

To add: and then monitor how many nurses we will need; shrink classes now, and then adjust to the needs. :yes:

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Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.
You don't think cutting the nursing workforce by as much as one half would affect outcomes?

The workforce isn't going to be suddenly cut in half, regardless of what changes are made, or I have at least never seen a (serious) proposal that immediately cut ADNs out of work.

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I read through quite a few pages.

Some think that the ADN/BSN this is a way to segregate the social classes. Honestly I think that is ridiculous to an extent. Through grants and loans, most people can get through many colleges and universities. I dropped out in 9th grade and got my GED. I was a dumb ass and accumulated a bunch of kids after that. Thankfully after that (at 27) I was able to get my head on straight and figure out how to go back to school. I got my AA with honors at a community college, completed my prerequisites for the local nursing programs, and applied for the top two.

I do not know about other places, but here it is very competitive. The community college has a ADN program that offers 24 seats per year (250ish? apply). Only the top GPA and HESI scores get admitted. The second option is the BSN program at the University. 50 per year get in out of about 400-500 applicants. Only the top GPA and TEAS scores get in.

I plan on moving up to my MSN, so of course I was hoping to get into the BSN program. Thankfully I did, but I would have been ecstatic to get into the ADN as well.

Now being a high school drop out, in my 30s, and a single mom with 4 kids, does not limit my ability to get a BSN vs a ADN. I am the lowest of the low out there statistically, and and barely making it financially, but if I can do it anyone can. Regardless of my background, I have been able to get into BSN school. All the opportunities I have had when it comes to aid, are available to most out there. Anyone who puts in effort can get their BSN, no matter what their background.

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I read through quite a few pages.

Some think that the ADN/BSN this is a way to segregate the social classes. Honestly I think that is ridiculous to an extent. Through grants and loans, most people can get through many colleges and universities. I dropped out in 9th grade and got my GED. I was a dumb ass and accumulated a bunch of kids after that. Thankfully after that (at 27) I was able to get my head on straight and figure out how to go back to school. I got my AA with honors at a community college, completed my prerequisites for the local nursing programs, and applied for the top two.

I do not know about other places, but here it is very competitive. The community college has a ADN program that offers 24 seats per year (250ish? apply). Only the top GPA and HESI scores get admitted. The second option is the BSN program at the University. 50 per year get in out of about 400-500 applicants. Only the top GPA and TEAS scores get in.

I plan on moving up to my MSN, so of course I was hoping to get into the BSN program. Thankfully I did, but I would have been ecstatic to get into the ADN as well.

Now being a high school drop out, in my 30s, and a single mom with 4 kids, does not limit my ability to get a BSN vs a ADN. I am the lowest of the low out there statistically, and and barely making it financially, but if I can do it anyone can. Regardless of my background, I have been able to get into BSN school. All the opportunities I have had when it comes to aid, are available to most out there. Anyone who puts in effort can get their BSN, no matter what their background.

I didn't qualify for financial aid when I considered a nursing degree, and even though tuition costs were far cheaper 19 years ago for both ADN and BSN programs, the difference in cost between an ADN at a community college and a BSN at the nearest state university was significant, as in one was affordable for my budget and the other wasn't. It made far more sense for me to complete my ADN in a reputable program at a community college (today, the program continues to be highly regarded by local employers), as I would be licensed and able to work as a nurse much sooner with much less expense. I have never regretted taking this route. I bridged to BSN at an accredited program at a state university directly after completing my ADN, something I had not originally planned, and graduated with honors from both programs.

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Specializes in Critical Care.
The workforce isn't going to be suddenly cut in half, regardless of what changes are made, or I have at least never seen a (serious) proposal that immediately cut ADNs out of work.

You're correct it wouldn't be an instant change, it would take a few years, I'm not sure how that makes it any less concerning.

In general BSN programs can't expand due to geographic concentration and the resulting clinical limitations. In my state there has been a moratorium for many years on BSN programs adding any spots to their cohorts, only ADN programs have had the ability to expand. So if in making BSN the entry-to-practice we follow your view which appears to be that ADN programs can't adopt BSN curriculum and are left with only BSN programs we'd cut our output of nurses by half or more. Given the relatively short career span of RN's it would take long for the shortage to become apparent, and I'm not sure how that would benefit the profession or patients.

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Get rid of the current moratorium on BSN expansion, allow your ADN programs to provide any additional clinicals needed for the BSN degree, and allow students to take higher level electives online at an affiliated state university.

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Specializes in Critical Care.
Get rid of the current moratorium on BSN expansion, allow your ADN programs to provide any additional clinicals needed for the BSN degree, and allow students to take higher level electives online at an affiliated state university.

The reason for the moratorium is that clinical spots are maxed out and in many cases beyond maxed out. Getting rid of the moratorium would result in a less beneficial clinical experience, which would seem counterproductive if the purpose of all this is to improve education.

It has been discussed that maybe we could just split the program into more of blocks of didactic and clinical (do a few weeks or months of didactic, then have the students disperse to where clinical opportunities are more available and do a few weeks/months of just clinicals). The problem with this is that it's a poor teaching model. The current movement is towards more integration of didactic and clinicals, not less, so again we'd be looking at making education worse, not better.

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Decrease the clinical spots for the ADN programs.

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Specializes in Nurse Scientist-Research.

Would it be a problem to stop the influx (or rather flood!) of new grad RNs for a couple of years?

Let's say as colleges/universities reorganized their programs to form collaboratives to graduate all BSNs; the new standard entry level for BSN. Would that be so bad? Maybe we would see a return of hospitals offering students small grants as an agreement to work for them 2-3 years when they graduate (this happened to me in the early 90s). I even remember signing bonuses for new graduates; they weren't as high as those for experienced nurses but they were there. In the presence of a true shortage; the government will reenact grants to nursing students they used to have, this and signing bonuses from the hospital would help ameliorate the problem of diversity addressed before.

No talk of taking away anyone's jobs; just grandfather them in. I know of LVNs who work in regional referral NICUs (lower acuity), they were grandfathered in when HR was no longer even hiring ADNs to those positions. Now if they left. . . there was no re-hire, but they had their job as long as they stayed.

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Specializes in Critical Care.
Decrease the clinical spots for the ADN programs.

How does that solve the problem?

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