If the US started a system like the NHS in the UK should nurses expect a cut in pay

Guest1144461 · Apr 30, 2020

34 minutes ago, kbrn2002 said:
It seems to me too many people in the US are overly focused on hourly pay rates. It's not how much an hour a person is paid in gross wages that matters so much as their actual net income and the spending power of that money.
Cost of living and benefits that are not calculated in gross wages needs to be a bigger part of the discussion when people on internet forums with participants from around the world start comparing wages.
I'd be perfectly happy making less money per hour if my health care costs were zero, if I had more paid time off and the ability to actually use it, if the obscene amount of money I pay each check to federal and state taxes actually supported the middle class and working poor more than big companies and the already wealthy.
I make a decent living with my hourly wage where I live. That same wage would put in me in upper middle class if I lived in a lower cost of living area or it would put me in the poor house if I lived in one of high cost of living areas.
People tend to see stars in their eyes and dream of a lavish lifestyle when they read about a nurse that makes $90.00/hr until they realize that nurse lives in a community where renting a studio apartment costs over $3500/month, gas is over $3.50/gallon when it's under $2.00/gallon pretty much everywhere else in the nation and state and local taxes take a brutal chunk of that check.

What you need to realize is the COL in the UK and other countries is really high. 30k a year with sky high taxes isn't going to cut it. Most people don't have heaps of medical needs in general and hourly pay is much more beneficial for the average nurse.

Since this thread was about the UK vs US in terms of compensation, I think its fairly its say that the US pays its nurses much better either way you spin it.

OUxPhys, BSN, RN · May 2, 2020

I work for a single payer system here in the US of A (the VA). I have separate sick time and vacation time. I make more money than any of the local private hospitals, both in yearly salary and shift differential. ICU's are still 1:1 or 2:1. I work on a step-down and our only ratio is if we have a LVAD or Tikosyn loader (although I wish it was 3:1 for everything on my floor).

The VA isn't a terrible system but it gets a bad rep because of incompetence and mismanagement at the higher levels. Do we have some lazy employees? You bet, but so did the private hospitals I worked at before. My previous employer treated you like a number.

I think more nurses should push to be unionized. I am part of the union at the VA. I have never been a pro-union guy but I see the benefits it offers. The one thing that I can't stand is their defense of incompetent/bad employees.

Id be in favor of a single payer but I wouldn't want all the hospitals to be run by the government. Id be OK with an increase in taxes but I think the US tax code overall needs to be overhauled.

allnurses Guide · May 2, 2020

On 4/28/2020 at 7:34 AM, GrumpyRN said:
What's your point? Nurses in the NHS get 7-10 weeks paid annual leave. Nurses in the NHS get 6 months full pay and a further 6 months half pay if they are off sick. They get up to a year paid maternity leave. They have better job security than US and costs are different.
Nurses in the NHS don't have to pay for healthcare it is included in their national insurance - NO bills regardless of cost or length of treatment. In Scotland and Wales you don't pay for prescriptions. As stated by a previous poster UK also has better life expectancy than US.
Excuse my language but.... sod that... No nurse in the UK needs to work 2 jobs especially if they are in a double income family, and the fact your husband has to work 50 hours a week is just appalling, 40 hours for full time work is the norm (nurses work 37.5 hours). Occasionally some nurses will do bank shifts or agency shifts for a bit of extra cash but not 2 jobs. There are also extra pay for working weekends, unsocial hours and overnight. Any overtime worked is paid at time and a half and double time for Sundays.
I have stated this in other threads but it is irrelevant what the hourly rate is as costs are different. The pay rate quoted was the starting salary for a brand new staff nurse and it goes up every year.
It is also a bit disingenuous of the OP to title the thread, "If the US started a system like the NHS in the UK should nurses expect a cut in pay." and then to comment about what UK nurses earn as the UK is not the only country with socialised medicine. Danish nurses average ~$41/hr, French nurses ~ $30/hr, Italian nurses ~ $12/hr, German nurse $20/hr. (Figures given are averages).

Grumpy This is a bit off topic but what is the average Rent or House payment in the UK say for two to three bedrooms?

Guest1142305 · May 2, 2020

The effective tax rate in the UK is something like 59%.

Silverdragon102, BSN · May 2, 2020

9 hours ago, hppygr8ful said:
Grumpy This is a bit off topic but what is the average Rent or House payment in the UK say for two to three bedrooms?

This should give you an idea. Just put in an area https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent.html

allnurses Guide · May 3, 2020

On 4/26/2020 at 7:06 PM, LovingLife123 said:
They get paid much less. I know if an ICU nurse in the UK who posted her pay. It was the equivalent of $15.73 an hour here.

And yes, if we went to a single payer system, nurses would get paid less. Our ratios would be higher as well.

Th NHS in the UK is a socialized system with hospitals and clinics owned and run my the government, doctors, nurses, and other staff are government employees. In the USA the Veterans Administration is Socialized.

With single payer ownership of hospitals, clinics, and physicians offices would remain as they are. Info on single payer: https://pnhp.org/what-is-single-payer/policy-details/ https://pnhp.org/what-is-single-payer/faqs/

Listen to these nurses opinion: http://njtoday.net/2017/09/15/nurses-support-sen-sanders-medicare-act/

In our state we have safe staffing ratios. WE will not let that law WE worked for be repealed without a fight. I think ALL nurses should have sufficient staff to provide safe, effective, compassionate nursing care.

DesiDani · May 3, 2020

Financial hardship is not solely based on a healthcare bill. There many who don't have to worry about a doctor's bill, but still have to worry about being able to afford to live day by day.

Tenebrae, BSN, RN · May 3, 2020

2 hours ago, anewmanx said:
The effective tax rate in the UK is something like 59%.

The UK government would disagree with you.

https://www.gov.uk/income-tax-rates

Please stop propagating false information

Guest1142305 · May 3, 2020

52 minutes ago, Tenebrae said:
The UK government would disagree with you.
https://www.gov.uk/income-tax-rates
Please stop propagating false information

I looked at moving to the UK or Spain. I have a pension and the motility to do so, and the tax scheme in Europe was what put me off from it for the sake of my progeny who would have relocated with us. You should not I said effective tax rate, which is a different economic term than income tax rate.

http://www.epicenternetwork.eu/publications/taxing-high-incomes/

https://timbro.se/app/uploads/2019/10/taxing-high-incomes-2019.xlsx

LovingLife123 · May 3, 2020

2 hours ago, herring_RN said:
Th NHS in the UK is a socialized system with hospitals and clinics owned and run my the government, doctors, nurses, and other staff are government employees. In the USA the Veterans Administration is Socialized.
With single payer ownership of hospitals, clinics, and physicians offices would remain as they are. Info on single payer: https://pnhp.org/what-is-single-payer/policy-details/ https://pnhp.org/what-is-single-payer/faqs/
Listen to these nurses opinion: http://njtoday.net/2017/09/15/nurses-support-sen-sanders-medicare-act/
In our state we have safe staffing ratios. WE will not let that law WE worked for be repealed without a fight. I think ALL nurses should have sufficient staff to provide safe, effective, compassionate nursing care.

I understand all of this. I think many of you in these other countries are not at all understanding what I am saying as it pertains to the US. I’m not talking about if I moved to the UK or a European country. I’m talking about if we modeled the UK system here in the US. People are missing that concept.

Guest1142305 · May 3, 2020

4 minutes ago, LovingLife123 said:
I understand all of this. I think many of you in these other countries are not at all understanding what I am saying as it pertains to the US. I’m not talking about if I moved to the UK or a European country. I’m talking about if we modeled the UK system here in the US. People are missing that concept.

My point was that you are comparing apples to oranges. There is a reason that their wages are structured so radically different than ours. I personally prefer the economic freedom that our particular system affords me to be creative with where my money goes and how I spend it. I shudder to think of living and working under a system like the NHS. My wife is from Costa Rica where single payer exists, and where I lived off and on for 6 years. Pay is abysmal, taxes are through the roof, and the medical care system is killing their already faltering economy despite no defense budget. Access to medical care in a timely fashion is abysmal, and you end up paying for private quality timely treatment if you want to live.

Our system problems could mostly be solved with price controls and tort reform.

allnurses Guide · May 3, 2020

I live in Los Angeles, California. The UK system is NOT single payer. It is socialism. From what I learned from nurse friends who came here from the UK in the 1980s and 90s for the most part they received and provided excellent care at their UK hospital. Some came for an adventure and left when their contract finished, some left during orientation because they didn't like working at our hospital, some stayed because they fell in love and married an American, some stayed because they agreed with most of our staff that we are a good group to work with and they like our country, but none had bad things to say about their system in the UK.