If the US started a system like the NHS in the UK should nurses expect a cut in pay

K+MgSO4, BSN · Apr 28, 2020

4 hours ago, DesiDani said:
There isn't a seperate staff to do laundry and kitchen? At nursing homes CNA get paid less, but they don't have to do kitchen or laundry duty whatever that is?

Completely depends on the nursing home. By laundry the HCA is sorting the clients clothes not washing and ironing the bed sheets etc. Kitchen duty is dishing up and clearing plates after meals. Food is typically prepared fresh on site by cook staff rather than mass produced cook chill deliveries. Clients who are able ro may be involved in laying tables or dishing up as one of the many activities the lifestyle coordinator designs- many women with early dementia do these tasks as they have dished up dinner their whole lives.

Tenebrae, BSN, RN · Apr 28, 2020

7 hours ago, LovingLife123 said:
I’m just going off of what I saw a UK ICU nurse state.

All good. ?

I'm just sharing based on my own experience working in a single payer system.

Tenebrae, BSN, RN · Apr 28, 2020

7 hours ago, LovingLife123 said:
I also couldn’t survive in the US on 15-16/hr. Right now, I have a two income household to afford life. I live in a major metropolitan area raising 3 children. I’d have to take two jobs working 60 hours a week as opposed to my 36 I work now which works well with my boys and all they’d activities. My husband works 50 hours a week.

I work in a single payer system, my hourly rate is 2 and 1/2 times that amount. I'm currently doing community work which is 40 hours a week, but working on the ward for 32 hours a week, often works out more profitable due to shift differentials etc

I also get 10 days a year sick leave, four weeks annual leave. 3 days bereavement leave and there is also discretionary leave. For example any nurse that has been exposed to covid 19, and is having to self isolate is still getting paid due to discretionary leave

Tenebrae, BSN, RN · Apr 28, 2020

5 hours ago, DesiDani said:
Well Grumpy. You are making way too much over a question. I'm sure it is fitting. If you like you can include "pay cut with the benefit of free healthcare and maternity leave". What's wrong by the way of asking if US nurses should expect a pay cut? Truth is truth, even if you do get the extra benefits.
Thanks for the insight and info, much appreciated

Its a bit of a false equivalency in many respects.

Sure you may be on less per hour, but if you arent having to pay obscene amounts for health insurance not to mention the other benefits.

I've shared this story before. Approxiamtely 6 years ago now, I ended up in hospital with an infected axillary abcess. For a six day hospital stay, including surgery, IV antibiotics the entire cost was approx $10-15 for the oral antibiotics on discharge. I also got sick leave for the time I was off work.

DesiDani · Apr 28, 2020

26 minutes ago, Tenebrae said:
Its a bit of a false equivalency in many respects.
Sure you may be on less per hour, but if you arent having to pay obscene amounts for health insurance not to mention the other benefits.
I've shared this story before. Approxiamtely 6 years ago now, I ended up in hospital with an infected axillary abcess. For a six day hospital stay, including surgery, IV antibiotics the entire cost was approx $10-15 for the oral antibiotics on discharge. I also got sick leave for the time I was off work.

OK, that's nice. So for you a cut in pay doesn't matter because you only had to pay $15. I get it, that cool. I never said if any cut of pay would be good or bad. Some are just assuming that if a cut in pay is questioned that automatically means that they are complaining. If I get a cut in pay I better get something out of it. Still even with $15 fee I would grumble if I saw my paycheck despite of the perks. Then again I've seen nurses grumble when they get paid $60 per hr.

Any old way, it is a choice to see a conflict when there really isn't one

DesiDani · Apr 28, 2020

38 minutes ago, Tenebrae said:
I work in a single payer system, my hourly rate is 2 and 1/2 times that amount. I'm currently doing community work which is 40 hours a week, but working on the ward for 32 hours a week, often works out more profitable due to shift differentials etc
I also get 10 days a year sick leave, four weeks annual leave. 3 days bereavement leave and there is also discretionary leave. For example any nurse that has been exposed to covid 19, and is having to self isolate is still getting paid due to discretionary leave

We get 3 day bereavement pay. As far as off days we get PTO. We also get shift differential too (weekend and nights). You earn more PTO per pay the longer you've been there so for me 15yrs/9.5hrs a pay. There is a max though at 315 hrs a year. There is also ELB (never used it) and I think that just builds.

I guess a little cut in pay wouldn't matter if didn't have to pay medical deductibles, but I'd have to pay more taxes.

Tenebrae, BSN, RN · Apr 28, 2020

1 hour ago, DesiDani said:
We get 3 day bereavement pay. As far as off days we get PTO. We also get shift differential too (weekend and nights). You earn more PTO per pay the longer you've been there so for me 15yrs/9.5hrs a pay. There is a max though at 315 hrs a year. There is also ELB (never used it) and I think that just builds.
I guess a little cut in pay wouldn't matter if didn't have to pay medical deductibles, but I'd have to pay more taxes.

The point is though by the time you work out how much you pay for tax, and your health insurance I'd be willing to bet you have more taken out of your weekly pay packed than I do

LovingLife123 · Apr 28, 2020

I don’t know the cost of living in these other countries. I was saying that here in the US, if we went to a single payer system, and nurses pay rate decreased to that amount, I couldn’t make it. I have a mortgage, 2 cars, and all the other things that come with raising a family.

I live in a relatively low cost of living area of the US. But I also know that I live a certain lifestyle. As do most people here. It’s a big part of the reason I feel a single payer system won’t work here. I’m not saying that one is better than the other longevity wise. I just know from being a nurse what the American people expect from us. And the changes that would occur with a single payer system our culture HERE is not ready or understanding of.

Yes, my husband works at the very least 50 hours a week. He’s salaried and owns a business. He makes double what I do which affords us new clothes and shoes. Our kids play sports. We can go out to dinner. We don’t have debt. We live in a nice home and neighborhood in which to raise our kids.

LovingLife123 · Apr 28, 2020

I also get close to 5 weeks of PTO a year. I use it for vacation, sick time, and low census pay.

Yes I pay for my healthcare from each paycheck. It comes to $300/month for my whole family. My husband and I barely use it. Yearly check ups which are covered 100%. I use it more for my kids. I can pay $10-50 a visit depending on what is done. But it’s usually just well child check ups which are completely covered. My yearly visit to the OB is covered 100%. We do have the basics covered here.

Guest1144461 · Apr 29, 2020

Probably less. The pay for NPs in all of the commonwealth countries is abysmally low. The same for RNs. My father is British and I looked into the salaries/positions in the UK for RNs. They are laughably low (32K in London? even with experience you will never hit 100k) in spite of high cost of living in the city. The tasks assigned are often very menial too.

US RNs are the highest paid in the wold by far. I made 100k as a RN with little OT in an average US city. No UK job is going to touch that. Just Google how low their salaries are plus the massive taxes you will pay.

kbrn2002, ADN, RN · Apr 30, 2020

It seems to me too many people in the US are overly focused on hourly pay rates. It's not how much an hour a person is paid in gross wages that matters so much as their actual net income and the spending power of that money.

Cost of living and benefits that are not calculated in gross wages needs to be a bigger part of the discussion when people on internet forums with participants from around the world start comparing wages.

I'd be perfectly happy making less money per hour if my health care costs were zero, if I had more paid time off and the ability to actually use it, if the obscene amount of money I pay each check to federal and state taxes actually supported the middle class and working poor more than big companies and the already wealthy.

I make a decent living with my hourly wage where I live. That same wage would put in me in upper middle class if I lived in a lower cost of living area or it would put me in the poor house if I lived in one of high cost of living areas.

People tend to see stars in their eyes and dream of a lavish lifestyle when they read about a nurse that makes $90.00/hr until they realize that nurse lives in a community where renting a studio apartment costs over $3500/month, gas is over $3.50/gallon when it's under $2.00/gallon pretty much everywhere else in the nation and state and local taxes take a brutal chunk of that check.

LovingLife123 · Apr 30, 2020

30 minutes ago, kbrn2002 said:
It seems to me too many people in the US are overly focused on hourly pay rates. It's not how much an hour a person is paid in gross wages that matters so much as their actual net income and the spending power of that money.
Cost of living and benefits that are not calculated in gross wages needs to be a bigger part of the discussion when people on internet forums with participants from around the world start comparing wages.
I'd be perfectly happy making less money per hour if my health care costs were zero, if I had more paid time off and the ability to actually use it, if the obscene amount of money I pay each check to federal and state taxes actually supported the middle class and working poor more than big companies and the already wealthy.
I make a decent living with my hourly wage where I live. That same wage would put in me in upper middle class if I lived in a lower cost of living area or it would put me in the poor house if I lived in one of high cost of living areas.
People tend to see stars in their eyes and dream of a lavish lifestyle when they read about a nurse that makes $90.00/hr until they realize that nurse lives in a community where renting a studio apartment costs over $3500/month, gas is over $3.50/gallon when it's under $2.00/gallon pretty much everywhere else in the nation and state and local taxes take a brutal chunk of that check.

I stated I don’t know what the COLA is in other countries. The original question was that if we here is the US, went to a single payer system, would the nurses expect lower wages. I could not here, afford the lower wages because if our cost of living. My healthcare that I pay for is seriously not that much. I’m sure if I had chronic conditions right now that might be different.

I understand what my net pay is against my hourly wages and benefits. I have good benefits which is why I currently work for my hospital system. I could make $4/hr more for my job at a different hospital system, but my benefits outweigh me making a higher hourly wage. So yes, many of us “get it”.

I don’t make a huge amount in nursing. I could make much more in other careers. I make enough for me and my family while working 36 hours a week. If I worked night shift, weekend option, I could make triple what I make now. But, if my pay were to get drastically cut due to a single payer system here, I’d probably go back to one of my other careers where I would make more money.