If the US started a system like the NHS in the UK should nurses expect a cut in pay

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I believe that in the UK the nurses who work in the NHS get paid less than their US counterparts.

13 hours ago, hppygr8ful said:

Grumpy This is a bit off topic but what is the average Rent or House payment in the UK say for two to three bedrooms?

Where my grandparents lived outside of London it was easily 2500-4000 US dollars unless you want a complete dump or something in the middle of nowhere.

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Specializes in Cardiology.
14 minutes ago, herring_RN said:

I live in Los Angeles, California. The UK system is NOT single payer. It is socialism. From what I learned from nurse friends who came here from the UK in the 1980s and 90s for the most part they received and provided excellent care at their UK hospital. Some came for an adventure and left when their contract finished, some left during orientation because they didn't like working at our hospital, some stayed because they fell in love and married an American, some stayed because they agreed with most of our staff that we are a good group to work with and they like our country, but none had bad things to say about their system in the UK.

I feel like they and everyone else who has universal healthcare doesn't have anything bad to say other than wait times can be long if it is not an emergency. This is where private insurance would come in and it does in some countries that have universal payer and private insurance.

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2 hours ago, Tenebrae said:

The UK government would disagree with you.

https://www.gov.uk/income-tax-rates

Please stop propagating false information

Percentages are off but it doesn't matter, UK is still much higher. The average tax rate in the UK is 40-45% for most people, even at the highest tax bracket here you won't even come close to that especially if you live in a non income tax state. Good in the Uk are generally more expesnive but the Us property taxes can be higher. Also factor in the VAT

It comes down to what you value. Do you like the govt eating up more of your dollars for "Services"? After 10 years in the military, I don't.

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14 hours ago, OUxPhys said:

I work for a single payer system here in the US of A (the VA). I have separate sick time and vacation time. I make more money than any of the local private hospitals, both in yearly salary and shift differential. ICU's are still 1:1 or 2:1. I work on a step-down and our only ratio is if we have a LVAD or Tikosyn loader (although I wish it was 3:1 for everything on my floor).

The VA isn't a terrible system but it gets a bad rep because of incompetence and mismanagement at the higher levels. Do we have some lazy employees? You bet, but so did the private hospitals I worked at before. My previous employer treated you like a number.

I think more nurses should push to be unionized. I am part of the union at the VA. I have never been a pro-union guy but I see the benefits it offers. The one thing that I can't stand is their defense of incompetent/bad employees.

Id be in favor of a single payer but I wouldn't want all the hospitals to be run by the government. Id be OK with an increase in taxes but I think the US tax code overall needs to be overhauled.

Unions are good until that garbage nurse that is lazy and entitled makes 20 dollars an hour more than you for simply existing. There is 0 incentive to work hard in a union. I couldn't stand it. My salary is set in stone based off of contract that changes every 3 years regardless.

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Specializes in Mental Health, Gerontology, Palliative.
1 hour ago, Numenor said:

Percentages are off but it doesn't matter, UK is still much higher. The average tax rate in the UK is 40-45% for most people, even at the highest tax bracket here you won't even come close to that especially if you live in a non income tax state. Good in the Uk are generally more expesnive but the Us property taxes can be higher. Also factor in the VAT

It comes down to what you value. Do you like the govt eating up more of your dollars for "Services"? After 10 years in the military, I don't.

Mehh dont know about you, I find 18% a bit of a too high deviation for my liking. If someone is going to quote stats, get it right

forget who said it "The test of a societys morals is how it treats its most vulnerable". I'm glad to live in a country that should I ever end up being sick or in an accident I won't have to take out a second mortgage or sell a vital organ just to pay the medical bills. I'll never forget having a conversation with a US friend (who had become a naturalised NZ citizen) who ended up with a terminal cancer diagnosis. This friend was asked if they would go back home to be close to their friends and family and no, they chose to finish out their life in NZ because for them to go back to the US would have left their family with a legacy of debt and stress.

I find it a fairly sad indictment on a system when a country person would rather die half way around the world than go home to their country of birth

And there are those who despite all the best will and interventions in the world will never be able to fully participate in the market place and work full time, those with an intellectual disability, chronic mental illness. Do we choose to allow them to naturally fade out, IMO as a society we have a duty to care for those who are unable to care for themselves

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Specializes in Mental Health, Gerontology, Palliative.
1 hour ago, Numenor said:

Unions are good until that garbage nurse that is lazy and entitled makes 20 dollars an hour more than you for simply existing. There is 0 incentive to work hard in a union. I couldn't stand it. My salary is set in stone based off of contract that changes every 3 years regardless.

No motivation to work hard in a union? What utter bollicks.

Our MECA is renegotiated every 2 years and involves changes. We dont have to worry about being fired simply because we made a mistake, or looked at someone in the wrong manner. Some of the crap that nurses report putting up with on this website would not be allowed to fly in my evil unionsed country.

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Specializes in Mental Health, Gerontology, Palliative.
2 hours ago, anewmanx said:

I looked at moving to the UK or Spain. I have a pension and the motility to do so, and the tax scheme in Europe was what put me off from it for the sake of my progeny who would have relocated with us. You should not I said effective tax rate, which is a different economic term than income tax rate.

http://www.epicenternetwork.eu/publications/taxing-high-incomes/

https://timbro.se/app/uploads/2019/10/taxing-high-incomes-2019.xlsx

Perhaps you should take your information directly from the government. Given that they are the ones doing the taxing

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22 minutes ago, Tenebrae said:

Perhaps you should take your information directly from the government. Given that they are the ones doing the taxing

You seem to be misunderstanding the concept of effective tax rate. It includes more than income tax to give a more realistic picture of total taxation.

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1 hour ago, Tenebrae said:

No motivation to work hard in a union? What utter bollicks.

Our MECA is renegotiated every 2 years and involves changes. We dont have to worry about being fired simply because we made a mistake, or looked at someone in the wrong manner. Some of the crap that nurses report putting up with on this website would not be allowed to fly in my evil unionsed country.

Truth hurts, there is a reason why actual "professional" careers don't involve unions. Nursing loves to tote this line between white collar and blue collar. Hmm wonder why. Unions breed incompetence and stagnation for the hope they will bail you out if something happens. I have seen multiple instances where after paying for dues (in the thousands over years), they were nowhere to be found when it mattered. Buy your own and call it good. Hospitals aren't keen on firing nurses when the average cost to hire and train a nurse is 75K. I have seen a handful over years and years of practice and they were usually for gross incompetence or narcotic diversion.

Unions had their purpose decades ago, now with nursing jobs so plentiful most RNs have the pick of the litter and hospitals that force ICU RNs to have 4 patients simply don't exist. Supply and demand. Sorry I want to rewarded for my hard work and not be subservient to an archaic pay scale based on tenure.

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6 hours ago, LovingLife123 said:

But, I was responding to the OPs original question and it went off on tangents. The question was should we here in the US expect our pay to go down with a single payer system. I responded yes. I responded with some pay rates I had seen in other countries with this type of system. My response had nothing to do with nurse satisfaction or the quality of care in other countries and that is where my answer was taken.

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On 4/28/2020 at 2:19 PM, DesiDani said:

OK, that's nice. So for you a cut in pay doesn't matter because you only had to pay $15. I get it, that cool. I never said if any cut of pay would be good or bad. Some are just assuming that if a cut in pay is questioned that automatically means that they are complaining. If I get a cut in pay I better get something out of it. Still even with $15 fee I would grumble if I saw my paycheck despite of the perks. Then again I've seen nurses grumble when they get paid $60 per hr.

Any old way, it is a choice to see a conflict when there really isn't one

This topic tends to get pretty emotional. In the past we've had people ask things like "is it true you have to bring your own pillow to hospital in <choose country w/ single-payer system>?" referring to countries with single payer systems.

The truth really is that there are many more factors than meet the eye when you compare health systems country vs country.

Single-payer systems operate in unique ways that save money throughout. I've become a convert to a single-payer supporter, even though I had reservations. The differences weren't related to nursing wages and benefits.

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6 hours ago, Tenebrae said:

forget who said it "The test of a societys morals is how it treats its most vulnerable".

It has been attributed to a few people Harry S. Truman and Hubert H. Humphrey among them.

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