(So glad I stumbled across this website again after almost 6 years! I need to change my username because I am not an aspiring nurse anymore, I have been a nurse for almost 3 years! ?)
Anyway, I really do not want to take this new covid vaccine. I know I can’t be the only one who feels this way. Typically I am not an anti-vaxxer but something about this illness is making me think otherwise. For personal reasons I really do not want to take it when available at my hospital, but I’m afraid it will be mandatory. I am almost considering finding a new job if my hospital forces us all to take it. What a shame because I do like my job and wouldn’t know what else to turn to that isn’t nursing, because chances are most healthcare related places of employment will likely require all employees take it.
I want to use the excuse of it being against my religion but I already took the flu vaccine this year. I have nothing against the flu vaccine but didn’t necessarily want it, but my hospital practically FORCED everyone to take it unless they grant you an exemption. I’m afraid they’ll question me why I took the flu shot but cannot take the covid vaccine.
What do you guys think about this? Will you be taking the vaccine? I just want us to be able to make our own decisions about this. If patients can refuse medications, procedures, and treatments, why can’t healthcare workers do the same? I read in multiple articles it will not be required by the federal government but each state and employer can decide whether or not it will be mandatory.
And forget the $1500 “stimulus check” that may be offered if you take it. All the money in the world would not change my mind about taking the vaccine. I feel as though if you have to bribe people to take it, something is peculiar.
I don’t know why this is bothering me so much. It should be a choice in my opinion. But by telling a few friends about not wanting it I feel judged. I have worked with covid patients multiple times since I am one of the younger nurses who does not have any kids/am pregnant. I feel like week after week I was always chosen to go to the covid section. At first I was mad but now it doesn’t bother me. I am not afraid to be near covid patients. Luckily through all this time I haven’t caught it. I always tell people I’d rather catch it than get this vaccine. That’s how strongly I feel against taking the vaccine. All of my non-nursing who have had covid are covered and thriving. To me catching it isn’t the biggest deal but others have called me selfish because I could be spreading it to others. Why is it looked at as selfish for not wanting to inject something into MY body. #mybodymychoice
Am I thinking about this too much? What would you do?
What are the scientific reasons that make you uncomfortable about taking the vaccine?
In an effort to meet the great demand for an emergent pandemic (understandably so) there is insufficient time and data in the research studies. Steps were bypassed specifically in the animal testing phases (there was animal testing but not to the extent that would make this fda approved) previous MRNA vaccine studies showed very concerning antibody dependent enhancement or ADE, which was never given the full research and time to be proven not an issue with any of the new MRNA vaccinations, in the research study conclusions, the general summarization in regard to ADE is that although it is promising there is no definitive certainty that ADE will not be an issue at this time. There have been no women in the trials who received the vaccination and then thereafter had a baby come to term... it’s mostly just a lack of data that I’m concerned with. With more data and scientific research in the future most nurses will feel more comfortable I am sure. Just need more science! (Gathering of data) Takes time!
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
1 hour ago, ohbejoyful said:
In an effort to meet the great demand for an emergent pandemic (understandably so) there is insufficient time and data in the research studies. Steps were bypassed specifically in the animal testing phases (there was animal testing but not to the extent that would make this fda approved) previous MRNA vaccine studies showed very concerning antibody dependent enhancement or ADE, which was never given the full research and time to be proven not an issue with any of the new MRNA vaccinations, in the research study conclusions, the general summarization in regard to ADE is that there it is promising but no definitive certainty at this time. There have been no women in the trials who received the vaccination and then thereafter had a baby come to term... it’s mostly just a lack of data that I’m concerned with. With more data and scientific research in the future most nurses will feel more comfortable I am sure. Just need more science! (Gathering of data) Takes time!
I understand that it is unrealistic to expect that you have the luxury of simply consuming something like this review in a leisurely fashion. It's a daunting 8+ hours long and I'm not ashamed to say that some of it was way outside my immediate comprehension. What it does represent is a very transparent representation of very smart people discussing all of the questions that I might ask and asking/discussing things that were reassuring to me.
I played it through headphones while I went about my day. It took me two days because it's not always practical to wear headphones continuously when you have a spouse in the house. Others I played over the home stereo so that we could both listen.
Listening to these discussions was reassuring for me. Maybe they will be for you too.
I understand that it is unrealistic to expect that you have the luxury of simply consuming something like this review in a leisurely fashion. It's a daunting 8+ hours long and I'm not ashamed to say that some of it was way outside my immediate comprehension. What it does represent is a very transparent representation of very smart people discussing all of the questions that I might ask and asking/discussing things that were reassuring to me.
I played it through headphones while I went about my day. It took me two days because it's not always practical to wear headphones continuously when you have a spouse in the house. Others I played over the home stereo so that we could both listen.
Listening to these discussions was reassuring for me. Maybe they will be for you to.
Thank you! I like the audio option and appreciate the information.
Let me correct myself now, it’s not that there was no animal testing that took place during the covid vaccination process, but that many steps regarding animal testing were left out, including the exposure to the illness and subsequent reexposures after the vaccination and documentation in research study thereafter. If anyone has the detailed full report of animal testing for any of the new vaccinations please send it my way as I have not been able to find. Also articles like this are what concern me so feel free to enlighten me further as some of you are definitely more understanding if the intricate details than myself
The Pfizer vaccine was tested on mice and macaques in pre-clinical studies.
”A two-dose series of 100 microgram of BNT162b2, separated by a three-week interval, protected 2-4 year old rhesus macaques against viral infection when challenged, intranasally and intratracheally, with 1x10^6 plaque forming units (pfu) of SARS-CoV-2 at 55 days after the second vaccination. Viral RNA, as measured by RT-qPCR, in the bronchoalveolar lavage fluid (BAL) and nasopharyngeal (NP) and oropharyngeal (OP) swabs was significantly reduced in the vaccinated animals as compared to the unvaccinated controls. Absence of virus was seen at Day 3 and Day 6 after challenge. Earlier or later time points were not measured.”
The Pfizer vaccine was tested on mice and macaques in pre-clinical studies.
”A two-dose series of 100 microgram of BNT162b2, separated by a three-week interval, protected 2-4 year old rhesus macaques against viral infection when challenged, intranasally and intratracheally, with 1x10^6 plaque forming units (pfu) of SARS-CoV-2 at 55 days after the second vaccination. Viral RNA, as measured by RT-qPCR, in the bronchoalveolar lavage fluid (BAL) and nasopharyngeal (NP) and oropharyngeal (OP) swabs was significantly reduced in the vaccinated animals as compared to the unvaccinated controls. Absence of virus was seen at Day 3 and Day 6 after challenge.”
https://www.ibtimes.com/who-gregory-michael-doctor-dead-after-covid-vaccine-wife-says-it-destroyed-beautiful-3116594 . This is the type of story that makes people uncomfortable about the Covid vaccine. Having said that just because he died after receiving the vaccine doesn't mean the vaccine caused the issue (in the same way that I protested that if I had died of an MI or stroke after testing positive for Covid it would not necessarily mean that Covid had significantly contributed to my death, I am a 51 year old male with separate risk factors for an MI and other issues). It is simple and yet complex. Vaccines have acknowledged risks and and benefits. They also have concerns (at least in the minds of some) related to long term mostly auto immune type of issues (these are considered fringe in mainstream, but many people have them including about 30% of the MD's where I used to work who used to "brag" about not taking the flu shot while RN's were forced to do so). Then again Covid has real short term issues (organ damage and death) along with probable long term issues (just read an article today that it crosses the blood brain barrier and may cause cognitive issues). Everyone will need to make an informed decision and should be encouraged to do so at their own pace without fear of criticism and certainly not under peril of their job.
https://www.ibtimes.com/who-gregory-michael-doctor-dead-after-covid-vaccine-wife-says-it-destroyed-beautiful-3116594 . This is the type of story that makes people uncomfortable about the Covid vaccine. Having said that just because he died after receiving the vaccine doesn't mean the vaccine caused the issue (in the same way that I protested that if I had died of an MI or stroke after testing positive for Covid it would not necessarily mean that Covid had significantly contributed to my death, I am a 51 year old male with separate risk factors for an MI and other issues). It is simple and yet complex. Vaccines have acknowledged risks and and benefits. They also have concerns (at least in the minds of some) related to long term mostly auto immune type of issues (these are considered fringe in mainstream, but many people have them including about 30% of the MD's where I used to work who used to "brag" about not taking the flu shot while RN's were forced to do so). Then again Covid has real short term issues (organ damage and death) along with probable long term issues (just read an article today that it crosses the blood brain barrier and may cause cognitive issues). Everyone will need to make an informed decision and should be encouraged to do so at their own pace without fear of criticism and certainly not under peril of their job.
I don’t understand why you quoted my post that was answering another poster’s questions regarding animal trials?? Anyway.. ?
It is important to follow the data as it accumulates now that several of the vaccines are being rolled out. I noticed another poster who appeared to believe that those of us willing to take the vaccine are claiming it’s 100% free of risk. I’ve never claimed that and I don’t think any other poster has either. What I have said that I have confidence in the data presented so far. I know the risks involved with a Covid-19 infection (well, some of them. We likely still have more to learn), and feel that the risks of the disease are more serious than the potential risks of a vaccine. And I’m not even statistically high-risk. But that’s my decision and I’ve been very clear all along. While I hope that a majority of people will take a vaccine, I do not think they should be mandatory for all to take.
Despite rather large phase 3 trials they were not powered to find every conceivable rare side effect. But that’s a risk I’m personally willing to take, because as I said I know the risks of a Covid infection.
The case you mentioned is as far as I understand under investigation since the deceased did receive one of the vaccines. We don’t know the outcome yet.
When we read about a case like this one I think it’s helpful to apply logic instead of reacting emotionally. First of all, let’s wait and see what the investigation concludes. Secondly, we should consider the fact that morethan15million doses have already been administered. Likely several million more than that since I’m sure there is a certain time lag in the reporting and some countries that have started vaccinating aren’t included yet in the statistics I’ve linked. The number of doses administered makes it easier to get a sense of proportion.
My biggest concern is there just hasn't been enough time to see the long term effects. Though it may be approved, how certain will it be in effectively protecting us and ensuring us that there aren’t any serious side effects. I don’t want any side effects to “just appear later” and to feel like a “guinea pig” for taking it during the first go round. I’d rather wait for subsequent years to take it after seeing the long term effects.
Are you concerned about the long-term effects of COVID if you or your family contract the virus?
I don’t understand why you quoted my post that was answering another poster’s questions regarding animal trials?? Anyway.. ?
It is important to follow the data as it accumulates now that several of the vaccines are being rolled out. I noticed another poster who appeared to believe that those of us willing to take the vaccine are claiming it’s 100% free of risk. I’ve never claimed that and I don’t think any other poster has either. What I have said that I have confidence in the data presented so far. I know the risks involved with a Covid-19 infection (well, some of them. We likely still have more to learn), and feel that the risks of the disease are more serious than the potential risks of a vaccine. And I’m not even statistically high-risk. But that’s my decision and I’ve been very clear all along. While I hope that a majority of people will take a vaccine, I do not think they should be mandatory for all to take.
Despite rather large phase 3 trials they were not powered to find every conceivable rare side effect. But that’s a risk I’m personally willing to take, because as I said I know the risks of a Covid infection.
The case you mentioned is as far as I understand under investigation since the deceased did receive one of the vaccines. We don’t know the outcome yet.
When we read about a case like this one I think it’s helpful to apply logic instead of reacting emotionally. First of all, let’s wait and see what the investigation concludes. Secondly, we should consider the fact that morethan15million doses have already been administered. Likely several million more than that since I’m sure there is a certain time lag in the reporting and some countries that have started vaccinating aren’t included yet in the statistics I’ve linked. The number of doses administered makes it easier to get a sense of proportion.
Exactly, they were not powered sufficiently (the trials) to find side effects that are more rare. I'm thinking here of a drug like Vioxx which was discovered to have significant impact on CAD/MI's that did not show up in the large clinical trials (Celebrex also had issues just less severe). On the other hand those drugs were for pain and not designed to combat a potentially lethal pathogen. I still maintain that if we tracked say 50,000 RN's who declined the vaccine verses 50,000 who accepted it for say two years we would acquire useful data (it would be skewed towards women perhaps thus if MD's could be included that might be better). Given that those numbers will take and decline the vaccine any way it would make sense to do the study.
Specializes in Physiology, CM, consulting, nsg edu, LNC, COB.
On 12/11/2020 at 4:01 AM, AspiringNurse94 said:
I don’t know why this is bothering me so much. It should be a choice in my opinion. But by telling a few friends about not wanting it I feel judged. I have worked with covid patients multiple times since I am one of the younger nurses who does not have any kids/am pregnant. I feel like week after week I was always chosen to go to the covid section. At first I was mad but now it doesn’t bother me. I am not afraid to be near covid patients. Luckily through all this time I haven’t caught it.
You feel uneasy about this because your conviction that you have nothing to fear isn't much better than whistling in the dark. You might feel it's just luck that you haven't been infected yet. Luck has little to do with it; we don't care for people based on luck. There are good and bad accidents that enter into life, but luck is just another way of characterising them, and accidents always have root causes.
I would take the vaccine in a heartbeat if it were available to me today. I don't work in a patient-facing position so I have to wait, but I'm eager. If you have really cared for dying COVID patients and seen the agony they and their families experience, I think you'd change your mind. Think about it. Be a good example for public health.
You feel uneasy about this because your conviction that you have nothing to fear isn't much better than whistling in the dark. You might feel it's just luck that you haven't been infected yet. Luck has little to do with it; we don't care for people based on luck. There are good and bad accidents that enter into life, but luck is just another way of characterising them, and accidents always have root causes.
I would take the vaccine in a heartbeat if it were available to me today. I don't work in a patient-facing position so I have to wait, but I'm eager. If you have really cared for dying COVID patients and seen the agony they and their families experience, I think you'd change your mind. Think about it. Be a good example for public health.
There are also those like myself who have already "had" covid and we don't know if getting the vaccine will prevent subsequent infection or mitigate the potentially negative long term negative effects (such as brain fog) that can come with having had the disease. Also, there is the fact that many if not most people don't even have the option right now of getting the vaccine unless you work in front line health care.
Exactly, they were not powered sufficiently (the trials) to find side effects that are more rare. I'm thinking here of a drug like Vioxx which was discovered to have significant impact on CAD/MI's that did not show up in the large clinical trials (Celebrex also had issues just less severe). On the other hand those drugs were for pain and not designed to combat a potentially lethal pathogen.
I’ve noticed that you only respond to the part of my post that fits your narrative. Yes, the trials were not sufficiently powered to detect eventual rare side effects. They wouldn’t be. The trials were larger than many other pharmaceutical trials, but they still wouldn’t catch the very rare events. However, my main point was that the risk of Covid-19 is known and that makes the choice relatively easy for me. I genuinely don’t understand why you appear so preoccupied with theoretical possible rare side effects that may or may not exist. You’ve already stated that you’d take the vaccine in a heartbeat if you were offered a financial reward for taking it.
How come you immediately think of drug like Vioxx just because there is one fatality where a causal relationship hasn’t been determined? One case in the news out of 15 million+ administered doses. It seems a bit glasshalfempty... Why aren’t you thinking of the thousands of medications that have been approved and haven’t been recalled?
ohbejoyful
79 Posts
In an effort to meet the great demand for an emergent pandemic (understandably so) there is insufficient time and data in the research studies. Steps were bypassed specifically in the animal testing phases (there was animal testing but not to the extent that would make this fda approved) previous MRNA vaccine studies showed very concerning antibody dependent enhancement or ADE, which was never given the full research and time to be proven not an issue with any of the new MRNA vaccinations, in the research study conclusions, the general summarization in regard to ADE is that although it is promising there is no definitive certainty that ADE will not be an issue at this time. There have been no women in the trials who received the vaccination and then thereafter had a baby come to term... it’s mostly just a lack of data that I’m concerned with. With more data and scientific research in the future most nurses will feel more comfortable I am sure. Just need more science! (Gathering of data) Takes time!