(So glad I stumbled across this website again after almost 6 years! I need to change my username because I am not an aspiring nurse anymore, I have been a nurse for almost 3 years! ?)
Anyway, I really do not want to take this new covid vaccine. I know I can’t be the only one who feels this way. Typically I am not an anti-vaxxer but something about this illness is making me think otherwise. For personal reasons I really do not want to take it when available at my hospital, but I’m afraid it will be mandatory. I am almost considering finding a new job if my hospital forces us all to take it. What a shame because I do like my job and wouldn’t know what else to turn to that isn’t nursing, because chances are most healthcare related places of employment will likely require all employees take it.
I want to use the excuse of it being against my religion but I already took the flu vaccine this year. I have nothing against the flu vaccine but didn’t necessarily want it, but my hospital practically FORCED everyone to take it unless they grant you an exemption. I’m afraid they’ll question me why I took the flu shot but cannot take the covid vaccine.
What do you guys think about this? Will you be taking the vaccine? I just want us to be able to make our own decisions about this. If patients can refuse medications, procedures, and treatments, why can’t healthcare workers do the same? I read in multiple articles it will not be required by the federal government but each state and employer can decide whether or not it will be mandatory.
And forget the $1500 “stimulus check” that may be offered if you take it. All the money in the world would not change my mind about taking the vaccine. I feel as though if you have to bribe people to take it, something is peculiar.
I don’t know why this is bothering me so much. It should be a choice in my opinion. But by telling a few friends about not wanting it I feel judged. I have worked with covid patients multiple times since I am one of the younger nurses who does not have any kids/am pregnant. I feel like week after week I was always chosen to go to the covid section. At first I was mad but now it doesn’t bother me. I am not afraid to be near covid patients. Luckily through all this time I haven’t caught it. I always tell people I’d rather catch it than get this vaccine. That’s how strongly I feel against taking the vaccine. All of my non-nursing who have had covid are covered and thriving. To me catching it isn’t the biggest deal but others have called me selfish because I could be spreading it to others. Why is it looked at as selfish for not wanting to inject something into MY body. #mybodymychoice
Am I thinking about this too much? What would you do?
I’ve noticed that you only respond to the part of my post that fits your narrative. Yes, the trials were not sufficiently powered to detect eventual rare side effects. They wouldn’t be. The trials were larger than many other pharmaceutical trials, but they still wouldn’t catch the very rare events. However, my main point was that the risk of Covid-19 is known and that makes the choice relatively easy for me. I genuinely don’t understand why you appear so preoccupied with theoretical possible rare side effects that may or may not exist. You’ve already stated that you’d take the vaccine in a heartbeat if you were offered a financial reward for taking it.
How come you immediately think of drug like Vioxx just because there is one fatality where a causal relationship hasn’t been determined? One case in the news out of 15 million+ administered doses. It seems a bit glasshalfempty... Why aren’t you thinking of the thousands of medications that have been approved and haven’t been recalled?
My main concern is autonomy and the risk of losing it as I did for years when I took the influenza vaccine rather than losing my RN job which my family relied upon. Freedom and the ability to choose without facing severe financial repercussions. That's why we are carefully looking at which states are most likely to defy congressional laws that we believe abrogate the Second Amendment or mandatory vaccination orders (or other issues such not being able to go to Church in person). I believe taking the vaccine is probably a great idea, but I want people to have the ability to make that choice and consider both the great benefits, and possible risks. Others are free to make their own decisions.
Also, it isn't just one or two adverse events. This article has a link to the VAERS database https://sharylattkisson.com/2021/01/read-adverse-events-reported-after-covid-19-vaccine-so-far/ . If you search it you will find many adverse reactions to Covid and other vaccinations. One key difference is that with the other vaccines you can receive compensation after an adverse event, but with the Covid vaccines you cannot. Having said that there is no "database" for the many potential long term negative side effects of having Covid. Then again we don't yet know how completely the vaccine will work against the emerging variants/mutations (the best science indicates it will probably be effective), but might it facilitate "subclinical" infection that still manifests in long term issues (for example brain fog) if one is infected in with Covid after vaccination?
I’ve noticed that you only respond to the part of my post that fits your narrative. Yes, the trials were not sufficiently powered to detect eventual rare side effects. They wouldn’t be. The trials were larger than many other pharmaceutical trials, but they still wouldn’t catch the very rare events. However, my main point was that the risk of Covid-19 is known and that makes the choice relatively easy for me. I genuinely don’t understand why you appear so preoccupied with theoretical possible rare side effects that may or may not exist. You’ve already stated that you’d take the vaccine in a heartbeat if you were offered a financial reward for taking it.
How come you immediately think of drug like Vioxx just because there is one fatality where a causal relationship hasn’t been determined? One case in the news out of 15 million+ administered doses. It seems a bit glasshalfempty... Why aren’t you thinking of the thousands of medications that have been approved and haven’t been recalled?
Also, I tend to write these responses in between seeing patients. I might have someone who just attempted (or is thinking about suicide) or someone else who just lost a relative to covid or who is facing eviction after four months of unemployment. Thus, the quality of my replies is not doubt affected.
Also a recent study published in the New England Journal of Medicine suggests that hospital workers infected with Covid may have immunity for at least six months. This further highlights the dilemma to get vaccinated if you have already experienced a Covid infection https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034545 . Indeed, during the study period few of the workers with antibodies experienced reinfection. This is especially interesting given that the viral load experienced by healthcare workers when exposed tends to be higher than the general public. Thus, the same principle might apply to the larger population of individuals (non health care workers) who have had confirmed Covid virus infection and recovered.
I think I got confused because what initially started this was a quote by someone else, and I mistakenly thought I was talking to the original poster. This was the original quote, which most of my comments were in regard to, so I can see why you are also confused why I am saying the things I’m saying. So I responded to person who was concerned about getting the vaccine; letting them know it’s a widespread issue with an article showing that 50% of nurses in riverside county ca have declined the vaccine. They then made this comment
”So what? Half of the people in the US couldn't discern how dangerous Trump was because they didn't have to research skills to figure out who they were voting for. We should pay any heed to people who don't know about science because they have non medical jobs. They are mostly ignorant. What's crazy is that nurses refuse. I've seen some bizarre posts here that indicate a lack of intellectual curiosity or the skills needed to read the literature. And that they live so close th LA county. “
which is in regard to most of what I was saying about high horse, assuming people are stupid trump supporters for not wanting the vaccine etc.
I now see that it wasn’t you who originally posted this, but just made a comment on it. I apologize.
How patronizing of you to extend your sympathies for what my generation went through. We have benefited greater than any other generation in the world from medical science. We live longer and healthier lives because of being the willing recipients of vaccines. In my 70's, I don't have to take any meds because I didn't have to suffer sequelae from diseases for which I was vaccinated. I never said Trump supporters were anti-vaxxers. I merely said that they weren't intellectually curious enough to find out what kind of guy they were voting for. But now that the riots and deaths have interceded my previous post, I think the mentality demonstrated speaks for itself.
If he had not consistently got lured into conspiracy theory brain, he would not have done this criminal act.
Believing any theory does not justify criminal acts. One might believe that JFK was not shot by a lone gun man (killed by the Mob, Cuba or others) or that Cheney was part of a plot against 911 or that the Gulf of Tonkin was staged to get us involved in the Vietnam war (not saying any of these were true). It cannot be proved and people in a free society are free to believe what they like. However, peoples rights to believe end with laws that allow certain behavior and restrict others. There is no way to stop divergent perspectives or conspiracy theories in a free society.
In an effort to meet the great demand for an emergent pandemic (understandably so) there is insufficient time and data in the research studies. Steps were bypassed specifically in the animal testing phases (there was animal testing but not to the extent that would make this fda approved) previous MRNA vaccine studies showed very concerning antibody dependent enhancement or ADE, which was never given the full research and time to be proven not an issue with any of the new MRNA vaccinations, in the research study conclusions, the general summarization in regard to ADE is that although it is promising there is no definitive certainty that ADE will not be an issue at this time. There have been no women in the trials who received the vaccination and then thereafter had a baby come to term... it’s mostly just a lack of data that I’m concerned with. With more data and scientific research in the future most nurses will feel more comfortable I am sure. Just need more science! (Gathering of data) Takes time!
2 hours ago, subee said:
And you never answered this question specifically. I must also add that Trumpism contributed to this:
Please look at my old response you apparently missed it? I requoted from above.
I apologize if I angered you by telling you I am sorry for what your generation went through in response to you saying to me that your generation was massively experimented on. I am glad that so much good has come from vaccination and medical treatments that are new, but I strongly stand by the ethics that an individual should choose their medical care and treatments no matter what.
You seem to respond to most posts very angry and political and one sided, it’s unfortunate people can not just have intellectual discourse without emotional propagandas clouding their judgement. There is a lot of propaganda, misinformation, and manipulation on *both political aisles* that only serve to divide people and you have clearly fallen deeply for one side of it (and of course I know it also exists on the opposite side too.)
It’s become hard to respect your point of view on this forum when you make everything angry and political and appear to be in support of bypassing basic respect and ethics on individuals medical choices as you patronize and socially degrade them by insisting they must be stupid, uninformed or trump supporters. The main thing I am trying to get through to you is that not everyone who is declining the vaccination is a trump supporter, uneducated, unable or unwilling to research.
I hope for you to have some real acceptance that there are people who think differently than you about getting vaccinated right away at this point of emergency use and that is okay, you cannot control other people. Most people will eventually get vaccinated after more data comes through. It is unprofessional and unethical to socially demean your peers for their own personal medical decisions regarding a non FDA approved emergency medical treatment, or any medical treatment for that manner. I could not imagine this behavior toward a patient, you can educate patients and show an example, but it is their choice, they shouldn’t face pressure or socially demeaning comments. I don’t know why you are treating your peers in this manner and don’t think there is anything wrong with it.
And don't you think the fact that he was an admitted conspiracy therapist, obviously stressed, and with questionable judgement might have something to do with this?
People are responsible for their own actions. We live in a free society where we thankfully have the right to believe what we wish. However, that doesn't give anyone the right to unlawfully interpose their belief on others. Now should companies like facebook, Google, Twitter and the rest be able to "ban" Trump for what they believe is "fake news" maybe. It's a tough question. On one hand it's "their turf" and the courts have supported this perspective. On the other hand they are a "public accommodation" and it can be argued are the "public square" of this day and age and should therefore have to uphold the First Amendment (this however is a minority opinion and has not been upheld in the courts). There will always be people who act upon their convictions or upon conspiracies. The price of freedom is the understanding and acceptance that some (perhaps many perhaps even most) people will abuse it.
myoglobin, ASN, BSN, MSN
1,453 Posts