(So glad I stumbled across this website again after almost 6 years! I need to change my username because I am not an aspiring nurse anymore, I have been a nurse for almost 3 years! ?)
Anyway, I really do not want to take this new covid vaccine. I know I can’t be the only one who feels this way. Typically I am not an anti-vaxxer but something about this illness is making me think otherwise. For personal reasons I really do not want to take it when available at my hospital, but I’m afraid it will be mandatory. I am almost considering finding a new job if my hospital forces us all to take it. What a shame because I do like my job and wouldn’t know what else to turn to that isn’t nursing, because chances are most healthcare related places of employment will likely require all employees take it.
I want to use the excuse of it being against my religion but I already took the flu vaccine this year. I have nothing against the flu vaccine but didn’t necessarily want it, but my hospital practically FORCED everyone to take it unless they grant you an exemption. I’m afraid they’ll question me why I took the flu shot but cannot take the covid vaccine.
What do you guys think about this? Will you be taking the vaccine? I just want us to be able to make our own decisions about this. If patients can refuse medications, procedures, and treatments, why can’t healthcare workers do the same? I read in multiple articles it will not be required by the federal government but each state and employer can decide whether or not it will be mandatory.
And forget the $1500 “stimulus check” that may be offered if you take it. All the money in the world would not change my mind about taking the vaccine. I feel as though if you have to bribe people to take it, something is peculiar.
I don’t know why this is bothering me so much. It should be a choice in my opinion. But by telling a few friends about not wanting it I feel judged. I have worked with covid patients multiple times since I am one of the younger nurses who does not have any kids/am pregnant. I feel like week after week I was always chosen to go to the covid section. At first I was mad but now it doesn’t bother me. I am not afraid to be near covid patients. Luckily through all this time I haven’t caught it. I always tell people I’d rather catch it than get this vaccine. That’s how strongly I feel against taking the vaccine. All of my non-nursing who have had covid are covered and thriving. To me catching it isn’t the biggest deal but others have called me selfish because I could be spreading it to others. Why is it looked at as selfish for not wanting to inject something into MY body. #mybodymychoice
Am I thinking about this too much? What would you do?
What emotions and ethical considerations are you talking about? Please enumerate because I don't understand what you are saying. I merely ask nurses to dispassionately review what we know about the vaccines (with an open mind) and then decide whether having or spreading Covid is acceptable for the risks of taking a vaccine which, so far, has proven to be very safe. I have seen a post on this thread about someone refusing it because it will "mess up" their DNA. Houston Methodist Hospital is offering their workers a second $500 bonus as a gratitude but this second one is contigent upon getting the vaccine. We will await to see what the staff decides. As someone who grew up at a more naive time when people believed what their doctors recommended, I was the beneficiary of multiple vaccines and probably most grateful for not having polio. I take a flu shot because a doctor I worked with talked me out of it one year and I got it twice - getting pneumonia the second time. I was young and a runner then.
I absolutely respect the posters on here who have taught me a lot, and helped explain incorrect information re the new vaccines. I totally agree that there is misinformation, fear, and a lack of understanding.
I am not going to pretend I understand the biotechnology as a scientist would. But the assumption that people *should* take the vaccine is what concerns me. If you have weighed your own personal risks and benefits and feel comfortable, thank you for volunteering. But otherwise, for those who do not, some for legitimate reasons such as no data on the long term effects, not enough time to develop research regarding ADE with widespread MRNA vaccination, etc. we don’t need to automatically assume people are “stupid misinformed trump supporters “ etc. (not my words)
It is emotional , to me, to be angry at people for not “getting us all back to normal” and expect that people all line up for an experimental medical treatment. Maybe that’s not where your coming from but a lot of people on here keep bringing up how they have been stuck in their home all year and just want to get back to normal and how it’s disgusting then that nurses would refuse the vaccine, seems emotional and ethically disturbing to me!
If we don’t have enough evidence to draw a conclusion, ie are there long term effects of these bee vaccine? than we shouldn’t make statements as if we are confident we know the outcome. We really don’t know yet is the most honest and ethical stance.
The high horse statement come from being overly confident that you are comfortable taking one of the new vaccinations, and that others who don’t also feel comfortable must. E unintelligent, don’t research, don’t trust the science etc. when the reality all that anyone wants in order to be more confident is more data, which is purely a science based thought process. If you humbled yourself you might realize that at least some people are still intelligent, research and science based professionals who are still skeptical, and that’s because we don’t have enough data yet.
I never said that people who have spent time reading about the vaccine and then not taking it were unintelligent and you know it. I was referring to nurses who don't read anything scientific about the vaccine making ridiculous comments that the vaccine messes up their DNA. Obviously, they have not read the science when they throw out something so completely false. My entire generation has been one huge scientific experiment because when I was born we were killing rabbits to determine pregnancy status. Most of the health benefits we enjoy today were results of a lifetime of experimentation on boomers' bodies. So you are accusing me of being unethical because I would advise that others take a vaccine? I'm still not clear on why you think you are so superior and in the know.
How many hundreds of millions of people will have to take the vaccine before you will accept that it might be the the better of two evils? Are all of the scientists who contributed to this part of a conspiracy to peddle a drug that is worst than the disease?
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
29 minutes ago, ohbejoyful said:
If we don’t have enough evidence to draw a conclusion, ie are there long term effects of these vaccines? than we shouldn’t make statements as if we are confident we know the outcome. We really don’t know yet is the most honest and ethical stance.
The high horse statement come from being overly confident in statements that portray that you are comfortable taking one of the new vaccinations, and that others who don’t also feel comfortable must just be unintelligent, don’t research, don’t trust the science etc. when the reality all that most people want in order to be more confident is more data, which is purely a science based thought process. If you humbled yourself you might realize that at least some people are still intelligent, research and science based professionals who are still skeptical, and that’s because we don’t have enough data yet.
You must have an example of that behavior that you could quote. Meanwhile, you've now accused me of emotional remarks and judgement because of the way you feel about my remarks...are you judging me personally because you experience an emotion when reading my comments?
I have consistently accepted credible research and data in the course of discussion.
I never said that people who have spent time reading about the vaccine and then not taking it were unintelligent and you know it. I was referring to nurses who don't read anything scientific about the vaccine making ridiculous comments that the vaccine messes up their DNA. Obviously, they have not read the science when they throw out something so completely false. My entire generation has been one huge scientific experiment because when I was born we were killing rabbits to determine pregnancy status. Most of the health benefits we enjoy today were results of a lifetime of experimentation on boomers' bodies. So you are accusing me of being unethical because I would advise that others take a vaccine? I'm still not clear on why you think you are so superior and in the know.
How many hundreds of millions of people will have to take the vaccine before you will accept that it might be the the better of two evils? Are all of the scientists who contributed to this part of a conspiracy to peddle a drug that is worst than the disease?
I just want to say I am sorry about what you and your generation has been through.
On one hand, experimental volunteers are a beautiful thing, I know I wouldn’t want to be the first passenger on a plane etc. Many people’s bravery paved the way for people to have confidence in safety for things. But it was wrong then, and it is wrong now for experimentees to not give consent. Many of the tragic and horrendous wrong doings of our past have helped to pave the road for improved and more ethical standards in an effort to not continue the wrong doings of our past. For example, the Nuremberg codes, from the medical experiments in nazi Germany.
How much data do I need? Probably at least a full year of widespread and diverse research, including meeting all requirements of FDA approval.
I don’t think it’s a conspiracy for scientists to peddle a drug that’s worse than the disease. I think it is good intentions and making the best decisions possible with the emergency and time constraints at hand. Data was compromised for time. And that is understandable. But still, each individual should weigh their own personal risks and benefits prior to making their decision.
Vaccine or not, we all still have to social distance and follow strict PPE protocol this year as the data becomes more clear. There is no reason to feel threatened that someone not receiving the vaccine will impede on things “going back to normal. “ It’s going to take more data and time before we really understand how effective the vaccine is and for how long. I don’t see the rush in everyone getting it right now, as another poster mentioned it will make for a good control group in the meantime.
For some, they might feel the risk of the disease is higher than the treatments, for some they may feel the treatment is riskier than the disease, some may feel scared about both, and some may just make the desicion to take the treatment from an altruistic perspective regardless of any personal risk or benefit. But ultimately, it is up to the individual and I very passionately feel in this particular circumstance there are various potential risks to both the vaccine and the disease and it should be up to the individual. I believe it is unethical and unprofessional to bully, coerce, pressure, socially demean others personal medical choices.
You must have an example of that behavior that you could quote. Meanwhile, you've now accused me of emotional remarks and judgement because of the way you feel about my remarks...are you judging me personally because you experience an emotion when reading my comments?
I have consistently accepted credible research and data in the course of discussion.
But your feelings are noted.
I think I got confused because what initially started this was a quote by someone else, and I mistakenly thought I was talking to the original poster. This was the original quote, which most of my comments were in regard to, so I can see why you are also confused why I am saying the things I’m saying. So I responded to person who was concerned about getting the vaccine; letting them know it’s a widespread issue with an article showing that 50% of nurses in riverside county ca have declined the vaccine. They then made this comment
”So what? Half of the people in the US couldn't discern how dangerous Trump was because they didn't have to research skills to figure out who they were voting for. We should pay any heed to people who don't know about science because they have non medical jobs. They are mostly ignorant. What's crazy is that nurses refuse. I've seen some bizarre posts here that indicate a lack of intellectual curiosity or the skills needed to read the literature. And that they live so close th LA county. “
which is in regard to most of what I was saying about high horse, assuming people are stupid trump supporters for not wanting the vaccine etc.
I now see that it wasn’t you who originally posted this, but just made a comment on it. I apologize.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
11 minutes ago, ohbejoyful said:
I just want to say I am sorry about what you and your generation has been through.
On one hand, experimental volunteers are a beautiful thing, I know I wouldn’t want to be the first passenger on a plane etc. Many people’s bravery paved the way for people to have confidence in safety for things. But it was wrong then, and it is wrong now for experimentees to not give consent. Many of the tragic and horrendous wrong doings of our past have helped to pave the road for improved and more ethical standards in an effort to not continue the wrong doings of our past. For example, the Nuremberg codes, from the medical experiments in nazi Germany.
How much data do I need? Probably at least a full year of widespread and diverse research, including meeting all requirements of FDA approval.
I don’t think it’s a conspiracy for scientists to peddle a drug that’s worse than the disease. I think it is good intentions and making the best decisions possible with the emergency and time constraints at hand. Data was compromised for time. And that is understandable. But still, each individual should weigh their own personal risks and benefits prior to making their decision.
Vaccine or not, we all still have to social distance and follow strict PPE protocol this year as the data becomes more clear. There is no reason to feel threatened that someone not receiving the vaccine will impede on things “going back to normal. “ It’s going to take more data and time before we really understand how effective the vaccine is and for how long. I don’t see the rush in everyone getting it right now, as another poster mentioned it will make for a good control group in the meantime.
For some, they might feel the risk of the disease is higher than the treatments, for some they may feel the treatment is riskier than the disease, some may feel scared about both, and some may just make the desicion to take the treatment from an altruistic perspective regardless of any personal risk or benefit. But ultimately, it is up to the individual and I very passionately feel in this particular circumstance there are various potential risks to both the vaccine and the disease and it should be up to the individual. I believe it is unethical and unprofessional to bully, coerce, pressure, socially demean others personal medical choices.
In terms of feelings, I feel only concern for your ethical perspective.
But you can't support your concern about my ethical perspective with examples? Examples of me bullying, coercing, pressuring or socially demeaning others aren't really available but you'll just nurture that feeling anyway...because my comments evoke an emotional response?
Why not just talk about the vaccine rather than each other. Let's examine together the things or issues about the vaccine which give you pause. Whether concerns are based in facts or in unfounded fears they can still be examined for the benefit of all.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
10 minutes ago, ohbejoyful said:
I think I got confused because what initially started this was a quote by someone else, and I mistakenly thought I was talking to the original poster. This was the original quote, which most of my comments were in regard to, so I can see why you are also confused why I am saying the things I’m saying. So I responded to person who was concerned about getting the vaccine; letting them know it’s a widespread issue with an article showing that 50% of nurses in riverside county ca have declined the vaccine. They then made this comment
”So what? Half of the people in the US couldn't discern how dangerous Trump was because they didn't have to research skills to figure out who they were voting for. We should pay any heed to people who don't know about science because they have non medical jobs. They are mostly ignorant. What's crazy is that nurses refuse. I've seen some bizarre posts here that indicate a lack of intellectual curiosity or the skills needed to read the literature. And that they live so close th LA county. “
which is in regard to most of what I was saying about high horse, assuming people are stupid trump supporters for not wanting the vaccine etc.
I now see that it wasn’t you who originally posted this, but just made a comment on it.
That wasn't an assumption that vaccine refusal is evidence of Trump support...that is acknowledgment that a sizeable portion of the population is conditioned to believe lies and nonsense without even attempting to verify or discover truth. It's no secret that millions of Americans develop their beliefs about covid by listening to political commentary and rhetoric. It's no secret that millions of those same people also support Trump and believe the lie that he didn't lose the election.
Is it surprising in some way, for you, that lots of the people who are opposed to vaccination also believe that there was widespread fraud that victimized Trump?
But you can't support your concern about my ethical perspective with examples? Examples of me bullying, coercing, pressuring or socially demeaning others aren't really available but you'll just nurture that feeling anyway...because my comments evoke an emotional response?
Why not just talk about the vaccine rather than each other. Let's examine together the things or issues about the vaccine which give you pause. Whether concerns are based in facts or in unfounded fears they can still be examined for the benefit of all.
I have had numerous conversations throughout this very long discussion post, I have some enlightening discussions with people who either have more information than I did, or educated me about misinformation or who just have a deeper understanding of biotechnology than me.
After discussion and research I have found that I personally don’t feel comfortable at this time and need more data. Specifically data that will take time, at least a year of diverse widespread research, and fda approval, before personally feeling comfortable taking the vaccine. You and anything you might have to say cannot allot me that at this time, so don’t waste your time on me, I’ve made up my mind and anything further from you after this statement is just pressure at this point.
if I see anyone on here that is socially demeaning someone for not feeling comfortable volunteering for the vaccine or making statements that it should be mandatory etc. I will respond in full concern about their ethical compromises. That’s how this all started. It was my response to another persons post. And then you jumped on and started up something with me about it.
That wasn't an assumption that vaccine refusal is evidence of Trump support...that is acknowledgment that a sizeable portion of the population is conditioned to believe lies and nonsense without even attempting to verify or discover truth. It's no secret that millions of Americans develop their beliefs about covid by listening to political commentary and rhetoric. It's no secret that millions of those same people also support Trump and believe the lie that he didn't lose the election.
Is it surprising in some way, for you, that lots of the people who are opposed to vaccination also believe that there was widespread fraud that victimized Trump?
I believe there is absolutely a link between those two things, however there are thousands of people who don’t follow that political ideology and who feel uncomfortable about taking the vaccine for scientific reasons. (I.E. they want more data)
How do you not see that making assumptions and comments that if you don’t feel comfortable taking the vaccine than likely you are just an uneducated trump supporter as problematic?
That is an example of socially demeaning people by stereotyping people based on their personal medical decisions. That is unethical and unprofessional. That is the point of almost all my comments.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
8 minutes ago, ohbejoyful said:
I have had numerous conversations throughout this very long discussion post, I have some enlightening discussions with people who either have more information than I did, or educated me about misinformation or who just have a deeper understanding of biotechnology than me.
After discussion and research I have found that I personally don’t feel comfortable at this time and need more data. Specifically data that will take time, at least a year of diverse widespread research, and fda approval, before personally feeling comfortable taking the vaccine. You and anything you might have to say cannot allot me that at this time, so don’t waste your time on me, I’ve made up my mind and anything further from you after this statement is just pressure at this point.
if I see anyone on here that is socially demeaning someone for not feeling comfortable volunteering for the vaccine or making statements that it should be mandatory etc. I will respond in full concern about their ethical compromises. That’s how this all started. It was my response to another persons post. And then you jumped on and started up something with me about it.
I didn't "start" anything...I responded to your remark in which you quoted and spoke about me personally.
I believe there is absolutely a link between those two things, however there are thousands of people who don’t follow that political ideology and who feel uncomfortable about taking the vaccine for scientific reasons.
How do you not see that making assumptions and comments that if you don’t feel comfortable taking the vaccine than likely you are just an uneducated trump supporter as problematic?
That is an example of socially demeaning people by stereotyping people based on their personal medical decisions. That is unethical and unprofessional. That is the point of almost all my comments.
What are the scientific reasons that make you uncomfortable about taking the vaccine?
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
6 minutes ago, ohbejoyful said:
I believe there is absolutely a link between those two things, however there are thousands of people who don’t follow that political ideology and who feel uncomfortable about taking the vaccine for scientific reasons.
How do you not see that making assumptions and comments that if you don’t feel comfortable taking the vaccine than likely you are just an uneducated trump supporter as problematic?
That is an example of socially demeaning people by stereotyping people based on their personal medical decisions. That is unethical and unprofessional. That is the point of almost all my comments.
Who wrote that comment? If you don't want to be grouped incorrectly with a broad stroke assumption why would you do that to others...in very direct way? Only the person making or defending that remark should be accountable for that thinking.
ohbejoyful
79 Posts
I absolutely respect the posters on here who have taught me a lot, and helped explain incorrect information re the new vaccines. I totally agree that there is misinformation, fear, and a lack of understanding.
I am not going to pretend I understand the biotechnology as a scientist would. But the assumption that people *should* take the vaccine is what concerns me. If you have weighed your own personal risks and benefits and feel comfortable, thank you for volunteering. But otherwise, for those who do not, some for legitimate reasons such as no data on the long term effects, not enough time to develop research regarding ADE with widespread MRNA vaccination, etc. we don’t need to automatically assume people are “stupid misinformed trump supporters “ etc. (not my words)
It is emotional , to me, to be angry at people for not “getting us all back to normal” and expect that people all line up for an experimental medical treatment. Maybe that’s not where your coming from but a lot of people on here keep bringing up how they have been stuck in their home all year and just want to get back to normal and how it’s disgusting then that nurses would refuse the vaccine, seems emotional and ethically disturbing to me!