I Really Do Not Want the COVID Vaccine ?

[AspiringNurse94]

(So glad I stumbled across this website again after almost 6 years! I need to change my username because I am not an aspiring nurse anymore, I have been a nurse for almost 3 years! ?)

Anyway, I really do not want to take this new covid vaccine. I know I can’t be the only one who feels this way. Typically I am not an anti-vaxxer but something about this illness is making me think otherwise. For personal reasons I really do not want to take it when available at my hospital, but I’m afraid it will be mandatory. I am almost considering finding a new job if my hospital forces us all to take it. What a shame because I do like my job and wouldn’t know what else to turn to that isn’t nursing, because chances are most healthcare related places of employment will likely require all employees take it.

I want to use the excuse of it being against my religion but I already took the flu vaccine this year. I have nothing against the flu vaccine but didn’t necessarily want it, but my hospital practically FORCED everyone to take it unless they grant you an exemption. I’m afraid they’ll question me why I took the flu shot but cannot take the covid vaccine. 

What do you guys think about this? Will you be taking the vaccine? I just want us to be able to make our own decisions about this. If patients can refuse medications, procedures, and treatments, why can’t healthcare workers do the same? I read in multiple articles it will not be required by the federal government but each state and employer can decide whether or not it will be mandatory.

And forget the $1500 “stimulus check” that may be offered if you take it. All the money in the world would not change my mind about taking the vaccine. I feel as though if you have to bribe people to take it, something is peculiar.

I don’t know why this is bothering me so much. It should be a choice in my opinion. But by telling a few friends about not wanting it I feel judged. I have worked with covid patients multiple times since I am one of the younger nurses who does not have any kids/am pregnant. I feel like week after week I was always chosen to go to the covid section. At first I was mad but now it doesn’t bother me. I am not afraid to be near covid patients. Luckily through all this time I haven’t caught it. I always tell people I’d rather catch it than get this vaccine. That’s how strongly I feel against taking the vaccine. All of my non-nursing who have had covid are covered and thriving. To me catching it isn’t the biggest deal but others have called me selfish because I could be spreading it to others. Why is it looked at as selfish for not wanting to inject something into MY body. #mybodymychoice

Am I thinking about this too much? What would you do?

[MunoRN, RN]

1 hour ago, myoglobin said:

I suppose that it is "a choice", but considering that most of us rely upon our jobs to feed our families, pay our rent, and our health insurance, it is just shy of give up your religious faith or go to a "reeducation" camp much like the Falun Gong and Uighur Muslims's in China are given (albeit not so drastic, at least not yet). I take from your seemingly casual attitude towards it "being a choice" that many in administration will likely echo your perspective hence my concern that the covid vaccine might become mandatory. Here is a recently peer reviewed study that suggests that vaccinations may have health burdens (as well as benefits) https://www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/17/22/8674/htm and at least supports the thesis that individuals should have reasonable choice in the matter. The mere fact that vaccine makers advise women to not become pregnant for at least two months following vaccination creates religious issues https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/pfizer-coronavirus-vaccine-not-safe-for-pregnant-or-breastfeeding-mums-potential-danger-for-fertility . Given that some churches do not condone birth control (the Eastern Orthodox Church for example). 

That's a fairly absurd comparison of religion based human rights violations.

What you're referring to is a personal view that you've interpreted from the bible, it's not a view held by any religious faith or sect, which is the standard definition of a protected religious view.  The belief that barcodes are the mark of the devil described in revelations is far more common, but still not view widely held by any faith or sect.

And even then you're mischaracterizing the religious protections that exist under US law.  Employers are required to provide 'reasonable accommodations' to religious views, this doesn't require them make exceptions where those exceptions could put their patients at risk compared to not making the exception.  

You have the right to make choices based on your religious views but patients also have the right to be free from your religious views, you don't have the right to impose the consequences of your religious views onto them.

I completely agree that we don't have any way yet of knowing if there are any long-term adverse effects of the vaccines, but we do know that long-term adverse effects are not an uncommon result of a Covid-19 infection, and there has been more than enough sample size in the trial to determine that the vaccine is far safer than a Covid-19 infection.

I don't think there's many people who aren't at least a little leery about the vaccines, but I'm not sure how it's anything but extremely selfish to expect others to test the waters on your behalf.

1 hour ago, myoglobin said:

Here is a recently peer reviewed study that suggests that vaccinations may have health burdens (as well as benefits) https://www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/17/22/8674/htm and at least supports the thesis that individuals should have reasonable choice in the matter. 

What this study found is that parents who more actively engage in health care as evidenced by clinic visits are more likely to vaccinate, this isn't surprising and doesn't represent an increase in vaccine-related illnesses.

 

1 hour ago, myoglobin said:

The mere fact that vaccine makers advise women to not become pregnant for at least two months following vaccination creates religious issues https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/pfizer-coronavirus-vaccine-not-safe-for-pregnant-or-breastfeeding-mums-potential-danger-for-fertility . Given that some churches do not condone birth control (the Eastern Orthodox Church for example). 

The Eastern Orthodox Church does not prohibit contraception, and specifically condones it when it's to avoid potential health issues.

[myoglobin, ASN, BSN, MSN]

15 minutes ago, MunoRN said:

That's a fairly absurd comparison of religion based human rights violations.

What you're referring to is a personal view that you've interpreted from the bible, it's not a view held by any religious faith or sect, which is the standard definition of a protected religious view.  The belief that barcodes are the mark of the devil described in revelations is far more common, but still not view widely held by any faith or sect.

And even then you're mischaracterizing the religious protections that exist under US law.  Employers are required to provide 'reasonable accommodations' to religious views, this doesn't require them make exceptions where those exceptions could put their patients at risk compared to not making the exception.  

You have the right to make choices based on your religious views but patients also have the right to be free from your religious views, you don't have the right to impose the consequences of your religious views onto them.

I completely agree that we don't have any way yet of knowing if there are any long-term adverse effects of the vaccines, but we do know that long-term adverse effects are not an uncommon result of a Covid-19 infection, and there has been more than enough sample size in the trial to determine that the vaccine is far safer than a Covid-19 infection.

I don't think there's many people who aren't at least a little leery about the vaccines, but I'm not sure how it's anything but extremely selfish to expect others to test the waters on your behalf.

What this study found is that parents who more actively engage in health care as evidenced by clinic visits are more likely to vaccinate, this isn't surprising and doesn't represent an increase in vaccine-related illnesses.

 

The Eastern Orthodox Church does not prohibit contraception, and specifically condones it when it's to avoid potential health issues.

I fear that we are becoming more and more like China which uses a social credit system "sesame credit" to "encourage" what the government considers to be pro social behavior, but which has punishments (for what it considers to be antisocial behavior). These "punishments" can run the gamut from the inability to use public transport, to being excluded from higher education. In addition, religious minorities such as the Falun Gong are routinely put in "re-education camps" and there is evidence that they are even "involuntarily harvested" for their organs. I believe that "mandatory" vaccinations are a step in that direction (albeit a ways off).  Also the fact that influenza vaccinations were required at my hospital for RN's, but not for visiting family members or MD's (who were not employees) is another aspect of the disparity that I oppose.  In a recent poll about 40% of Americans believe we are living in "end times" https://religionnews.com/2013/09/11/shock-poll-startling-numbers-of-americans-believe-world-now-in-the-end-times/ hardly a rare perspective.  Yes, there are times that we have to sacrifice liberty to maintain patient safety. However, I would argue that vaccines such as the influenza which is proven to be no more than 40-60% effective or a Covid vaccine with no long term data fall far short of that standard. Consider, when I worked in the hospital I could literally come to work sick with the flu (albeit not covid). Indeed, missing work meant an occurrence even if it was for having influenza. However, you could not work (even if healthy) if you did not have the flu shot. Also, I will concede that the Eastern Orthodox Church makes exceptions. However, in my job as a PMHNP I deal with clients on a regular basis who tell me that their religious sect (often a variant of Lutherin it seems found in Washington state) that they cannot even use the rhythm method as it is forbade by their church.   

[herring_RN, ASN, BSN]

I can't find any evidence that the United States government will force anyone to be vaccinated. The exceptions are for those in the military, and MAYBE employees of a government hospital or other facility. BUT it did happen in 1905:  https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/where-does-the-governments-right-to-require-vaccinations-come-from/

I likely missed something.

 

[toomuchbaloney]

4 hours ago, myoglobin said:

I fear that we are becoming more and more like China which uses a social credit system "sesame credit" to "encourage" what the government considers to be pro social behavior, but which has punishments (for what it considers to be antisocial behavior). These "punishments" can run the gamut from the inability to use public transport, to being excluded from higher education. In addition, religious minorities such as the Falun Gong are routinely put in "re-education camps" and there is evidence that they are even "involuntarily harvested" for their organs. I believe that "mandatory" vaccinations are a step in that direction (albeit a ways off).  Also the fact that influenza vaccinations were required at my hospital for RN's, but not for visiting family members or MD's (who were not employees) is another aspect of the disparity that I oppose.  In a recent poll about 40% of Americans believe we are living in "end times" https://religionnews.com/2013/09/11/shock-poll-startling-numbers-of-americans-believe-world-now-in-the-end-times/ hardly a rare perspective.  Yes, there are times that we have to sacrifice liberty to maintain patient safety. However, I would argue that vaccines such as the influenza which is proven to be no more than 40-60% effective or a Covid vaccine with no long term data fall far short of that standard. Consider, when I worked in the hospital I could literally come to work sick with the flu (albeit not covid). Indeed, missing work meant an occurrence even if it was for having influenza. However, you could not work (even if healthy) if you did not have the flu shot. Also, I will concede that the Eastern Orthodox Church makes exceptions. However, in my job as a PMHNP I deal with clients on a regular basis who tell me that their religious sect (often a variant of Lutherin it seems found in Washington state) that they cannot even use the rhythm method as it is forbade by their church.   

There's a big difference between employers in the private sector mandating vaccines and the government mandating them. 

My experience with employer mandated influenza vaccine wasn't that you couldn't work if not vaccinated but that you had to wear a mask if not vaccinated.  

[TheMoonisMyLantern, ADN, LPN, RN]

I don't think that vaccines should be mandated by the government but I do think that private companies have right to mandate vaccination of employees providing direct patient care. Just like private companies mandate you to take a drug screen prior to employment, a yearly PPD, etc. you have the choice to work elsewhere. If you want to believe in conspiracy theories and backwoods superstitions over science ultimately that's your choice.

[NotMyProblem MSN, ASN, BSN, MSN, LPN, RN]

4 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

There's a big difference between employers in the private sector mandating vaccines and the government mandating them. 

My experience with employer mandated influenza vaccine wasn't that you couldn't work if not vaccinated but that you had to wear a mask if not vaccinated.  

That’s how it was at the last private-sector hospital that I was employed with as well. First, we were told to wear masks when in patient rooms. Then we were told to wear masks at all times while on duty..until one of the ‘higher-ups’ had a parent to pass away from the flu. It was a very large facility with more than 600 beds, with families and visitors roaming in and out 24 hours a day. But the parent’s infection was blamed on one single nurse in the OR. (How they came to that conclusion, we’ll never know).

 After that, inoculation became a condition of employment for every employee UNLESS there were documented allergies and religious exemptions signed by an ordained member of one’s place of worship in opposition to the vaccine.

Currently, I work in a federal facility and the flu vaccine is a condition of employment. Just last week, emails and huddled reminded us of the deadline to be vaccinated, produce documentation of vaccination/valid opposition, or stay home until individual compliance is met in one of the available options. 

My personal belief is that the COVID vaccine won’t be mandated until there is actually enough supply to go around.

[TheMoonisMyLantern, ADN, LPN, RN]

45 minutes ago, BSNbeDONE said:

That’s how it was at the last private-sector hospital that I was employed with as well. First, we were told to wear masks when in patient rooms. Then we were told to wear masks at all times while on duty..until one of the ‘higher-ups’ had a parent to pass away from the flu. It was a very large facility with more than 600 beds, with families and visitors roaming in and out 24 hours a day. But the parent’s infection was blamed on one single nurse in the OR. (How they came to that conclusion, we’ll never know).

 After that, inoculation became a condition of employment for every employee UNLESS there were documented allergies and religious exemptions signed by an ordained member of one’s place of worship in opposition to the vaccine.

Currently, I work in a federal facility and the flu vaccine is a condition of employment. Just last week, emails and huddled reminded us of the deadline to be vaccinated, produce documentation of vaccination/valid opposition, or stay home until individual compliance is met in one of the available options. 

My personal belief is that the COVID vaccine won’t be mandated until there is actually enough supply to go around.

Isn't it funny how when something happens to administration they practically burn the building down in their knee jerk response to change things.

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

On 12/12/2020 at 3:03 PM, juan de la cruz said:

@subee, just from my own curiosity, is it because the Astra Zeneca vaccine is not mRNA that makes you prefer it? From what I've read, the Astra Zeneca one is made from adenoviral vectors which seem rather new as well in terms of vaccine delivery.  I have relatives in Asia whose national governments made arrangements for ordering this vaccine.  I personally think it's a good thing that we have many options that offer layers of protection regardless.

Yes, exactly.  But, of course, I realize that any distrust of an mRNA vaccine may be unfounded, but, intellectually, I am not capable of understanding the science well enough to make an informed opinion.  So, since AZ is something I "misunderstand a little more", I'll wait to see if that is even offered.  If mRNA is the only option, I will be grateful to have the opportunity to take it if it comes to that.   Since I am retired and healthy, I have the luxury of time to make a decision.

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

12 hours ago, myoglobin said:

I fear that we are becoming more and more like China which uses a social credit system "sesame credit" to "encourage" what the government considers to be pro social behavior, but which has punishments (for what it considers to be antisocial behavior). These "punishments" can run the gamut from the inability to use public transport, to being excluded from higher education. In addition, religious minorities such as the Falun Gong are routinely put in "re-education camps" and there is evidence that they are even "involuntarily harvested" for their organs. I believe that "mandatory" vaccinations are a step in that direction (albeit a ways off).  Also the fact that influenza vaccinations were required at my hospital for RN's, but not for visiting family members or MD's (who were not employees) is another aspect of the disparity that I oppose.  In a recent poll about 40% of Americans believe we are living in "end times" https://religionnews.com/2013/09/11/shock-poll-startling-numbers-of-americans-believe-world-now-in-the-end-times/ hardly a rare perspective.  Yes, there are times that we have to sacrifice liberty to maintain patient safety. However, I would argue that vaccines such as the influenza which is proven to be no more than 40-60% effective or a Covid vaccine with no long term data fall far short of that standard. Consider, when I worked in the hospital I could literally come to work sick with the flu (albeit not covid). Indeed, missing work meant an occurrence even if it was for having influenza. However, you could not work (even if healthy) if you did not have the flu shot. Also, I will concede that the Eastern Orthodox Church makes exceptions. However, in my job as a PMHNP I deal with clients on a regular basis who tell me that their religious sect (often a variant of Lutherin it seems found in Washington state) that they cannot even use the rhythm method as it is forbade by their church.   

Since all religion is made up already, people can justify ANYTHING using a religion.  I worked with an OR nurse who refused to participate in D&C's, even in cases of miscarriage.  People kill their spouses because divorce is "illegal" in their religion.   Some people use religion for good deeds but others use it as a crutch to do something reprehensible.

 

[NurseSpeedy, ADN, LPN, RN]

On 12/11/2020 at 3:41 PM, subee said:

According to Dr. Fauci, we will still need to mask post vaccine through 2021.  The vaccine is not going to project us back to normal.  

Because it is probably going to take that  long to have enough vaccines to give it to those who want it - and have enough time for them to show immunity-and masking will be required if people resist getting the vaccine. We aren’t crazy enough to issue a vaccine license to get out of wearing a mask for those who won’t get the vaccine and for a handful that do not seroconvert after the vaccine (this is more common than I would of thought with MMR and varicella vaccines in adults with negative titers who got the vaccine again). 

[NurseSpeedy, ADN, LPN, RN]

I have thought about it and will get the vaccine when available. Unfortunately, my work as a nurse is not in a hospital or nursing home so I will problem not be able to get it early. My husband travels for work (medical service personnel) and is not sure if he will be considering in that first round of vaccines-but he’s in and out of hospitals. 
I’m high risk-last year’s flu almost landed me in the hospital (md got be an lender nebulizer until one could be delivered and did antibiotic and steroid shots in his office along with oral with the promise if I got worse I would either come back in for another dose or go to ER). I have asthma, autoimmune disorders, and a low wbc count (2.1) so COVID19 is not a visitor I want to play the let’s see game.

Also, something to consider- there are some young people who had what seemed like mild covid only to end up in really bad shape in the ICU later- healthy, no pre-existing conditions-and then months later in the ICU from a covid related issue... just make me think that young people don’t realize this thing can still come back to sting you. Kind of like shingles post varicella-but a hell of a lot worse.

[myoglobin, ASN, BSN, MSN]

2 hours ago, subee said:

Since all religion is made up already, people can justify ANYTHING using a religion.  I worked with an OR nurse who refused to participate in D&C's, even in cases of miscarriage.  People kill their spouses because divorce is "illegal" in their religion.   Some people use religion for good deeds but others use it as a crutch to do something reprehensible.

 

The fact that you consider religion "made up" doesn't mean that it isn't constitutionally protected by our First Amendment. Indeed, it is one of the primary reasons that this nation was created. The Declaration literally mentions God our current President Biden, and every President before him (as well as Vice President) believe in God (or profess to). Of course religion does not justify murder or other crime (although crime and murder and war are indeed done in the name of religion).  At the same time it is a fundamental basis for our form of government.