Getting Flack For Not Getting Covid Vaccine

[EDnurseAmen]

I am trying to feel out if anyone else has declined the Covid vaccine and feeling backlash or tension with other co-workers? I have never heard so much discussion regarding nurse receiving or declining a vaccine in the 12 years I've been a nurse. Not sure why it should even matter but, I am getting a lot of pressure about it. I do not see why I am "crazy " if I made the decision against receiving the vaccine. I also do not understand co-workers pushing the vaccine on me and others, or insisting we are out of our minds.  This is coming from management level as well as staff nurses. I am just appalled at the treatment and many of us who have declined the vaccine have kept to ourselves. For me, personally, I made the choice not to get it and I was done at that. It's been a month into our hospital vaccines and people will not just shut up about it. 

Is anyone else experiencing anything like this?

How are you handing this?

Please mind the poor spelling and grammar ?

[MeganMN]

8 hours ago, GrumpyRN said:

I don't know where you are but here the vaccines are not experimental. They have gone through a whole host of tests and measures and have been passed by the regulators.

 

this is actually not a factual statement. They are described as 'experimental' because They were passed under Emergency Use Authorization by the FDA, and while studies have been completed , they are still considered "investigational" in status and fall under legal standards for experimental medications.  See the following for more info about EUA:

https://www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/mcm-legal-regulatory-and-policy-framework/emergency-use-authorization

Not saying the vaccines are not showing promise, just clarifying that they ARE in fact still considered experimental or investigational in the US because of the fast tracked approval under the EUA umbrella. 

Interesting discussion. Seems these conversations always end up with people being snarky.  It's odd to me. We all take risks in life. Me being cautious about a new experimental vaccine does not mean that I am not taking care to keep myself, my family, and others around me safe. It does not mean that I deserve attack, or guilt, or that I have:

On 2/13/2021 at 3:52 PM, JKL33 said:

 NO right to comment/complain or otherwise give your 2 cents worth about what happens in the future.

That is like arguing that if I choose to homeschool, I do not deserve to have have a say  in what happens in my local school district. Or if I choose not to treat my child with an antibiotic for a viral ear infection that I cannot give them Tylenol for pain. Of course we can discuss what we want to see in the future related to this pandemic. We do not need to become shadows in society simply because we choose not to do something to OUR body. That is absurd!  The OP was asking about others getting flack for not getting vaccinated and then they get flack for it here.  If you do not want to answer the question and instead attack them for their post, do it somewhere else for goodness sakes.  Just close the browser and let people discuss things that are important to them without fear of attack.   Sorry.  Had a rant....

[Rose_Queen, BSN, MSN, RN]

16 minutes ago, MeganMN said:

this is actually not a factual statement. They are described as 'experimental' because They were passed under Emergency Use Authorization by the FDA,

Grumpy is in the UK. 

Quote

The vaccines approved for use in the UK have met strict standards of safety, quality and effectiveness set out by the independent Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA).

Any coronavirus vaccine that is approved must go through all the clinical trials and safety checks all other licensed medicines go through. The MHRA follows international standards of safety.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/coronavirus-vaccine/

[MunoRN, RN]

48 minutes ago, MeganMN said:

this is actually not a factual statement. They are described as 'experimental' because They were passed under Emergency Use Authorization by the FDA, and while studies have been completed , they are still considered "investigational" in status and fall under legal standards for experimental medications.  See the following for more info about EUA:

https://www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/mcm-legal-regulatory-and-policy-framework/emergency-use-authorization

Not saying the vaccines are not showing promise, just clarifying that they ARE in fact still considered experimental or investigational in the US because of the fast tracked approval under the EUA umbrella. 

Interesting discussion. Seems these conversations always end up with people being snarky.  It's odd to me. We all take risks in life. Me being cautious about a new experimental vaccine does not mean that I am not taking care to keep myself, my family, and others around me safe. It does not mean that I deserve attack, or guilt, or that I have:

That is like arguing that if I choose to homeschool, I do not deserve to have have a say  in what happens in my local school district. Or if I choose not to treat my child with an antibiotic for a viral ear infection that I cannot give them Tylenol for pain. Of course we can discuss what we want to see in the future related to this pandemic. We do not need to become shadows in society simply because we choose not to do something to OUR body. That is absurd!  The OP was asking about others getting flack for not getting vaccinated and then they get flack for it here.  If you do not want to answer the question and instead attack them for their post, do it somewhere else for goodness sakes.  Just close the browser and let people discuss things that are important to them without fear of attack.   Sorry.  Had a rant....

Whether or not the current vaccines are "experimental" is relative to both geography and what definition is being used.  

A number of countries have fully approved Covid vaccines, and many others including the US have "authorized" the use of these vaccines (under an EUA in the US).  Some definitions of "experimental drugs" exclude both "approved" and "authorized" drugs, as at least some significant amount research and proven efficacy and safety has already occurred.

[JKL33]

56 minutes ago, MeganMN said:

If you do not want to answer the question and instead attack them for their post, do it somewhere else for goodness sakes.

Please correctly attribute the quote. Thank you. And maybe you would be so kind as to review what all I wrote.

[MunoRN, RN]

As for why nurses would be "getting flack" for refusing a vaccine, I would think that would be an expected result of that refusal, and that the person deciding to refuse has determined that their choice is justified despite people having that view, so I don't see any basis for complaining.

As far as I can tell, there are three scenarios to weigh the risks and benefits of in making the decision to refuse a vaccine:

• No mitigation measures and no vaccine, which based on current mortality rates would result in US deaths in the millions,
• No vaccine but with continued use of mitigation measures which I would argue mitigation measures are hardly without serious detrimental effects, or
• Vaccination with a vaccine that with fairly robust evidence has far less risk and detrimental effects than the other two previous options.

[Tozz]

Haven't dropped into this forum in years, but one quick anecdote:

According to our Director of Pharmacy (in a largish community hospital), somewhere slightly north of 50% of RNs accepted the vaccine.  I asked about MDs.  He paused, thought, and said, "100%."

 

[vintagegal, BSN, DNP, RN, NP]

I wouldn’t want to be that nurse who accidentally gave COVID to a patient of mine and god forbid they pass, couldn’t have that on my conscience. Likewise, I want to dine out, go shopping, travel, see friends, protect my family. That’s why I got my vaccine, because I am not one to sit idly at home and cannot bear any more lockdowns. I don’t want to live my life like that, to me it’s not worth living if I can’t explore and see people. However, it is entirely your choice what you do with your body, none of my business. The only caveat is expecting covid pay, I don’t think if you chose to not get vaccinated that you should not receive paid time off. That’s all I will say about the issue. No need for any hostility. I think asking about COVID vaccination is like asking when your last Tdap vaccination was given- you have a right to keep your personal health information protected. 

[GrumpyRN, NP]

10 hours ago, MeganMN said:

Not saying the vaccines are not showing promise, just clarifying that they ARE in fact still considered experimental or investigational in the US

Exactly, IN THE US!! As has been pointed out, I am not in the US.

 

 

10 hours ago, MeganMN said:

Interesting discussion. Seems these conversations always end up with people being snarky.  It's odd to me. We all take risks in life. Me being cautious about a new experimental vaccine does not mean that I am not taking care to keep myself, my family, and others around me safe. It does not mean that I deserve attack, or guilt, or that I have:

On 2/13/2021 at 9:52 PM, JKL33 said:

 NO right to comment/complain or otherwise give your 2 cents worth about what happens in the future.

I have not been snarky, OP asked for an opinion and I gave them mine. JKL33 did not write that quote, I did.

 

 

10 hours ago, MeganMN said:

Me being cautious about a new experimental vaccine does not mean that I am not taking care to keep myself, my family, and others around me safe.

The way out of this pandemic is through vaccines so not taking the vaccines when you can means you are putting everyone's family at risk (Guilt trip intended).

 

 

10 hours ago, MeganMN said:

That is like arguing that if I choose to homeschool, I do not deserve to have have a say  in what happens in my local school district.

Yes it does, local school district has nothing to do with you therefore you are not allowed an opinion on what happens there.

 

 

10 hours ago, MeganMN said:

Or if I choose not to treat my child with an antibiotic for a viral ear infection that I cannot give them Tylenol for pain.

What possible reason would you give an antibiotic for a viral infection? This is what is leading to antibiotic resistance. Not giving analgesia is cruel and bad parenting. Totally false equivalencies.

 

 

10 hours ago, MeganMN said:

We do not need to become shadows in society simply because we choose not to do something to OUR body.

No, you are showing disdain for society by not working with that society. There is such a thing as the greater good. Or, if you like; "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." There, does that sound familiar?

 

 

10 hours ago, MeganMN said:

The OP was asking about others getting flack for not getting vaccinated and then they get flack for it here.  If you do not want to answer the question and instead attack them for their post, do it somewhere else for goodness sakes. 

The OP asked a reasonable question and I for one, and almost everyone else gave them a reasonable answer. They did not get "flack" for it. They may not have liked the answers but they were reasonable. Nowhere have I attacked the OP or their post.

ETA; Should add to this that the OP has not replied yet so no-one knows what they think at present.

 

 

10 hours ago, MeganMN said:

Just close the browser and let people discuss things that are important to them...

I am one of the "people" and this is a discussion site and it is important to me. Do you mean that only people who agree with your narrative can post? 

[Hoosier_RN, MSN]

I got my 1st dose moderna yesterday. I'm sicker than I ever was with actual covid, I had a very mild case. Today, I have a high fever, muscle aches,  dizziness, and a pounding headache. I hope I feel better later today or tomorrow. 

The health dept keeps asking if I'm sure this wasn't my 2nd dose, as it does happen often with that. 

[TheMoonisMyLantern, ADN, LPN, RN]

It's an interesting debate. The choice of vaccination, especially during a pandemic. It reminds me though that there have been court cases where a religious branch of people known as  christian scientists reject modern medicine and believe that healing can only be achieved through prayer. Well, over the years there have been instances of their children dying from untreated infections, cancer, diabetes, etc. and in some of the cases the parents were charged with negligent homicide even though treatment violated their religious rights. Consider to that certain vaccinations are required for public schools, college, employers. Realistically there's a lot of things that we can be forced to do in the name of safety and public health. 

If voluntary vaccination doesn't get us to achieve herd immunity our only other options are to A. develop an effective treatment against Covid B. mandate covid vaccines. 

I'm not saying what I think we should do, I recognize why people would be hesitant to vaccinate and I would never want to shame someone, but I also believe that vaccination is our best bet of getting out of this hell we're living in.

[macawake, MSN]

33 minutes ago, Hoosier_RN said:

I got my 1st dose moderna yesterday. I'm sicker than I ever was with actual covid, I had a very mild case. Today, I have a high fever, muscle aches,  dizziness, and a pounding headache. I hope I feel better later today or tomorrow. 

The health dept keeps asking if I'm sure this wasn't my 2nd dose, as it does happen often with that. 

I’m just thinking out loud here, but isn’t it a possibility that your immune system is reacting so strongly to your first vaccine dose because you’ve had a Covid infection? It kind of is the second ”dose” as far as your body is concerned. 

Hope you feel better soon! 

[Marc Goodman, BSN]

8 hours ago, Tozz said:

Haven't dropped into this forum in years, but one quick anecdote:

According to our Director of Pharmacy (in a largish community hospital), somewhere slightly north of 50% of RNs accepted the vaccine.  I asked about MDs.  He paused, thought, and said, "100%."

 

I wonder if part of the effect is not just level of education, but that many MDs consult on multiple units and have seen first hand the devastation covid-19 can bring.  While I work on psychiatry where we only had 1 case of moderate covid, I consulted on many patients on their deathbeds over on medicine.  We saw a ton of covid related behavioral issues due to delirium and poor oxygenation.   The potential long term risks of a vaccine (if any)  are currently unknown, but we sure know the effects of covid!  That's a real easy risk/benefit analysis for me.  I could understand being vaccine hesitant and living alone in the mountains, but for those that work covid petri dishes (hospitals), its a whole other story!