Firearms

[cracklingkraken]

I thought this was an interesting discussion that happened to pop-up on a certain social media site. How many of you conceal carry? And what do you think about prohibiting firearms on hospital property?

I think with the increasing violence these days, safety is a major concern for everyone. How do you protect yourself and still abide by the rules set by your facility?

[Bill E Rubin]

I've read to the end of page 4 so far, and I have a question.

A few people have mentioned how they would never bring a gun on hospital property or how shocked it seemed they were when someone else did. "Hospital property" constitutes an arbitrary line (the property line) on a map somewhere, right? And the person who carries within the law is typically a very peaceable person... that is, s/he is typically not a drinker or a druggie, not violent, doesn't go around threatening people... again, I did say typically; there are always a few bad examples out there of any group (the few nurses each year who lose licenses due to drug use are hardly representative of all nurses) Further, the "bad guys" in society who carry outside the law (felons, etc) are going to carry and are going to do bad things because it's what they do.

OK...bear with me, I'm getting to the question... So bad guys are going to carry and do bad things and good guys are going to go about their business peaceably, with the knowledge that some percentage of good guys will also have made the decision that they are not going to be victims that day.

What is it about that arbitrary line on a map that will stop bad guys from doing bad things and will make good guys start doing bad things inside of it?

From my perspective, it's not about "laws don't stop bad behavior so let's eliminate those laws"... it's about "gun laws specifically not stopping what they're supposedly passed to stop, so let's do something different that will." It's not the speed limit that stops the speeder, it's the fact that there's a guy sitting in a car with a radar gun that will charge them a bunch of money if they do it... and that doesn't stop them, but it provides a penalty for their actions. We need a penalty for bad behavior with a gun that will stop people from exhibiting bad behaviors. A study I read about, where a large number of imprisoned felons were asked what they feared most, the answer was "an armed victim", not a cop. Many said that if they knew a potential victim was armed, they would choose another victim instead.

So it seems to me that we've found the penalty they fear: dying (or being hurt by) the person they meant to victimize.

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell

What happens if there are no rough men around? Shouldn't we be able to do violence on our own behalf? Or should we forever pass that task to someone else as if it was "beneath us"? Being a nurse, a healer, should not make one a willing victim of robbery (property violence), any more than being a woman should make one a willing victim of rape (sexual violence).

Just my thoughts.

Bill

[CountryMomma, ASN, RN]

What happens if there are no rough men around? Shouldn't we be able to do violence on our own behalf? Or should we forever pass that task to someone else as if it was "beneath us"? Being a nurse, a healer, should not make one a willing victim of robbery (property violence), any more than being a woman should make one a willing victim of rape (sexual violence).

Just my thoughts.

We have armed security that make frequent rounds. In the time it would take a CCW nurse to go back to their locker, open it, and return to the scene, security would be on scene and dealing with it. This is provided the CCW nurse could get to the locker in the first place.

Carrying on our floor is a stupid, stupid idea. We have violent pts in seclusion, SI/SH pts on restrictions, combative detoxers and LOL/LOMs. No no no.

[Bill E Rubin]

What happens if there are no rough men around? Shouldn't we be able to do violence on our own behalf? Or should we forever pass that task to someone else as if it was "beneath us"? Being a nurse, a healer, should not make one a willing victim of robbery (property violence), any more than being a woman should make one a willing victim of rape (sexual violence).

Just my thoughts.

We have armed security that make frequent rounds. In the time it would take a CCW nurse to go back to their locker, open it, and return to the scene, security would be on scene and dealing with it. This is provided the CCW nurse could get to the locker in the first place.

Carrying on our floor is a stupid, stupid idea. We have violent pts in seclusion, SI/SH pts on restrictions, combative detoxers and LOL/LOMs. No no no.

Fair enough. What about on your way to or from your car? What about on your way between the hospital and your home? I'm not specifically talking about carrying on the floor. I'm talking about the default being to carry, and that when you don't, you have a specifically articulable reason not to do so. Say, for example, I'm leaving the house in the morning. When I get dressed, one part of doing so is to put my keys, pocketknife, wallet, and cash in my pockets. At the same time, I put a pistol on my belt. I'm not carrying to the store, or to the gas station or to the theater. I'm going to the store, gas station, or theater. It's my norm when getting dressed to put my pistol on. Now let's say that I know I have to go downtown to the courthouse to file my name as running for office. The courthouse is a no-carry place in my county, so I have to decide whether I'll leave it locked up in the car or leave it at home in the safe. The former is more likely, though it does mean someone might choose to break in to my car and steal the whole car with my gun in it. (no particular reason... there are no "gun" stickers or anything like that on my car, nothing to indicate one might be in there, I'm just saying that if they decide to take my car, that'd be a "bonus" for them. That might be a reason I'd leave the pistol at home.)

You might have a similar line of reasoning. Your work situation doesn't make carry a good option for you, from your description of it. By all means, if you're not comfortable, don't carry. I fully support your decision. I just don't think that one person's situation should define everyone else's.

Fair?

Bill

[Farawyn]

Sorry you're so scared, bro.

[hppygr8ful, ASN, RN, EMT-I]

I am actually a proponent of open carry laws - such as in states like Alaska and Arizona - I have a right to bear arms and I kind of want people to know I have one and am not opposed to using it if need be. I actually do not currently own a fire arm as I have too many teenagers in and out of my house on a daily basis. I was trained on the firm with a variety of rifles and shotguns used for putting food on the table and varmit control. I am fairly accurate with small arms and decent with a bow and arrow. I am a firm believer in being prepared for the zombie apocalypse. After all the CDC says if you are prepared for that you are prepared for anything. when it comes to disarming ordinary citizens I'll defer to Clint Eastwood who says "Participating in a gun buy back program because you think criminals have too many guns is like having yourself castrated because you think your neighbor has too many kids."

Hppy

[Bill E Rubin]

Sorry you're so scared, bro.

I don't know if you mean me, but I'm reminded of the anecdote about the cop that pulled over a little lady of about 75 years, for speeding.

"Good evening, Ma'am.", he began, and went through the usual, do you know why I pulled you over? Do you know how fast you were going?...and just before he asked for her license and registration, he asked if she had any weapons in the car.

"Yes, officer. I have my .357 here in the console, my .45 in the glovebox, my little 9mm in my purse and a .380 in the door here. Oh, and my AR-15 is in the trunk."

The officer stood, shocked, for a moment, then asked her,

"You have five guns in your car... what are you so scared of?"

And the lady answered him, "Not a @#$%ing thing."

I'm not scared. I know there are bad people in this world that do bad things. I just plan to not be one of their victims is all.

Bill

[ORDC]

Your proposal is not original -- that idea gets brought up by someone and kicked around for a while every several years. I've heard it plenty of times over the years, and, no, I don't think it has merit. Offering poor, desperate people a bribe to terminate a pregnancy is unethical coercion just as much as the current government policy of refusing to pay for abortions but automatically paying for prenatal care and delivery is unethically coercing poor, desperate people to continue pregnancies that they might otherwise choose to terminate.

I never heard my idea before. No one I know has heard of it before me either. Sources!!! Anyways....

You have your opinion and beliefs that has no merit and I completely disagree with them. I have mine which are original and great!

Never going to change my mind. I will not insult you by trying to change yours. So have a good one!

[Bill E Rubin]

Why is it that anyone feels the need to carry at all? I realize that this is a choice, however, I find it disturbing that people have the illusion they're safer carrying a weapon.

Ever had someone pop you with an IV tourniquet or squirt you with a saline flush, just playful stuff in down time? Or walked into one of these play-"wars"?

What was your option at the time? Scream in surprise, throw your arms up, and dive for cover? try to run?

Now replay the scenario when you had a tourniquet or a flush in your pocket.

Suddenly, you're not a helpless victim anymore.

Go ahead. Make my day.

"Dirty Harry" did love "taking out the trash", didn't he? Leaving aside the fictional character of that fictional character, the scene where he said that line was one in which the perps had guns on everyone, had already been shooting *at him*, and he was just done with them. In addition, he had started off talking to them, trying to deescalate, and doing so in that great, gravel-like, voice he is so famous for... and only when he had no option left did he draw and fire.

Maybe I missed something in that movie. Do you recall the scene? What option did he have that I didn't see? (I realize that sounds sarcastic. I don't mean it to. I'm honestly curious as to what option someone thinks he might have had. Given also that "Harry" was a cop, what option would he have had had he instead been a British bobby?)

Bill

[PMFB-RN, RN]

Not really related to the issue of staff carrying concealed in the hospital. I think some people need to be reminded that there are still plenty of us who live in areas where we face very real threats from wild and feral animals. When my family goes snow shoeing in the winter one of us always packs a gun. Usually a shotgun as we have a problem with wolves killing and eating our dogs. Several dogs have been killed by wolves within a few miles of my house. Killed while in the outdoors with their owners.

[Bill E Rubin]

Not really related to the issue of staff carrying concealed in the hospital. I think some people need to be reminded that there are still plenty of us who live in areas where we face very real threats from wild and feral animals. When my family goes snow shoeing in the winter one of us always packs a gun. Usually a shotgun as we have a problem with wolves killing and eating our dogs. Several dogs have been killed by wolves within a few miles of my house. Killed while in the outdoors with their owners.

We all face threats from wild and feral animals no matter where we live.

The only difference is how many legs those wild and feral animals have.

[cracklingkraken, ASN, RN]

Let's not make this about personal attacks and a completely unrelated topic. If you want to talk about abortion, please go do it somewhere else.

[heron, ASN, RN]

Mensa? The "genius" has spoken? So what - you're still wrong.