Firearms

ixchel · Oct 1, 2015

I think you may have taken what elk said a bit more extreme than it was meant. Not only that, but you dropped a controversial idea (into a totally unrelated thread) that you knew was controversial, and now you're giving personal insults to someone who has actually rationally responded with a valid thought.

There is merit in the idea that offering money to a person if they abort a child could be considered unethical.

There is also merit in the idea that offering money, food, healthcare and housing to a person (for NOT aborting a child) is also unethical.

Influencing a vulnerable population with money to either keep or end a pregnancy is controversial. Aborting a baby may mean one less child in poverty or committing crimes. Keeping a baby means not terminating a perfectly viable life.

Now, I do not believe elk was judging your ethics. Surely you can recognize the difference between debating ethics, and judging them. I, in this post, have debated ethics. There is no judgment here.

If we're going to discuss solutions that are actually possible for the single, impoverished mothers, don't defund places that give access to prevention and screening services. For every clinic that closes (yes, I'm mostly referring to Planned Parenthood, but health departments also fit under this umbrella), an entire population of women lose their birth control access. We need to be giving see places more money, not defunding them. If people don't want to talk about terminating pregnancies, how about we prevent them in the first place.

madwife2002, BSN, RN · Oct 1, 2015

Please refrain from personal attacks on other members

ixchel · Oct 1, 2015

Let's not make this about personal attacks and a completely unrelated topic. If you want to talk about abortion, please go do it somewhere else.

Crap. I was being irritatingly long winded while you posted this.

I agree. Let's talk about the real issue of this thread. Obama's stealing your guns, you guys. Time to start hoarding. (Or wait, was that 2013?)

I'm a total peace loving hippie dippy creature who hates that being married to law enforcement means CCW. I've made peace with it as much as I have to. Every day he's around people who would slit his throat with a tooth brush shiv just to gain street cred.

At the hospital? I'm struggling with the words to explain why, but I feel a hospital is an extremely inappropriate place to CC or OC (unless you're security, police, or a CO on prisoner watch/transport). Hospitals are places of healing. The people in them (patients, family) are already filled with anxiety. You have to acknowledge that yes, people are afraid of guns. Is it reasonable to expect your patients are some of those people? Of course it is. If you can't leave the gun in the car for the sake of your coworkers, maybe you could consider doing it for your patients.

cracklingkraken, ASN, RN · Oct 1, 2015

No worries, ixchel. At least your post didn't involve personal attacks. I typically expect some form of derailing from you.

What about hospitals that ban guns from their property? I respect individuals' decisions to CC, but my original question was having it on the hospital's property, not in the facility itself.

heron, ASN, RN · Oct 1, 2015

For me, the key is the fact that I have no choice about being there, whether in the facility on on facility property. I disagree that CC in my workplace is safe, appropriate or necessary.

Jrhemming · Oct 1, 2015

No the liberal rationale would be to ban homes and cars...

ixchel · Oct 2, 2015

No worries, ixchel. At least your post didn't involve personal attacks. I typically expect some form of derailing from you.
What about hospitals that ban guns from their property? I respect individuals' decisions to CC, but my original question was having it on the hospital's property, not in the facility itself.

As an employee or visitor?

PMFB-RN, RN · Oct 2, 2015

No worries, ixchel. At least your post didn't involve personal attacks. I typically expect some form of derailing from you.
What about hospitals that ban guns from their property? I respect individuals' decisions to CC, but my original question was having it on the hospital's property, not in the facility itself.

If the ban is only hospital policy, and not a law, then I would decide on a case by case basis. I MAY choose to violate the hospital policy depending on the level of threat I might face and how willing I am to lose that job if I am caught. For example many years ago I worked at what is now known and LAC / USC Medical Center. It was in a terrible area of east LA. I always carried there. Not while I was working, but there were very real threats getting into and out of the building. That precaution paid off during the LA riots. During my shift my revolver was kept in a locked case, inside my back pack, inside my locked locker. Nobody ever knew I had it until April 29th, 1992, a surreal day I won't ever forget.

cracklingkraken, ASN, RN · Oct 2, 2015

As an employee or visitor?

Ah, you made me pause and think.

I would imagine it would be hard to regulate guns on hospital property. Unless they go around checking cars, it would be impossible to know if anyone actually brought firearms on hospital property.

And if they did bring it on hospital property, what prevents them from bringing it in the facility as well? I would be uncomfortable if visitors or employees (other than security, LEO, etc.) were able to bring guns within the facility because of poor regulation.

I have to admit, I continue to learn so much from all your guys' posts. Thanks for allowing this to be such an in-depth teaching moment!

CarryThatWeight, BSN · Oct 2, 2015

In Texas, no one can prohibit anyone from carrying a gun or weapon in their car. Even if it's parked on hospital property. So you can always carry a gun in your car in Texas, as long as it's concealed (don't just leave it lying on the seat).

PMFB-RN, RN · Oct 2, 2015

I would be uncomfortable if visitors or employees (other than security, LEO, etc.) were able to bring guns within the facility because of poor regulation!

This view has always been a head scratcher for me. As person who had years of professional firearms training, is a certified NRA and BSA (Boy Scouts of America) firearms instructor, served as a marksmanship instructor and range safety officer in the army, and taken part in some very deadly firefights and battles, I do NOT feel more of less comfortable with firearms in the hands of security and LEOs. I am familiar with the level of training common among local LEOs and I am appalled at it's quality and quantity. We see evidence of this in the media all the time.

I do NOT trust the judgment and skills of LEO's over a civilian since many civilians are far more highly trained and experienced than a typical local cop. I would have to take it on a case by case basis for civilians and cops.

cracklingkraken, ASN, RN · Oct 2, 2015

This view has always been a head scratcher for me. As person who had years of professional firearms training, is a certified NRA and BSA (Boy Scouts of America) firearms instructor, served as a marksmanship instructor and range safety officer in the army, and taken part in some very deadly firefights and battles, I do NOT feel more of less comfortable with firearms in the hands of security and LEOs. I am familiar with the level of training common among local LEOs and I am appalled at it's quality and quantity. We see evidence of this in the media all the time.
I do NOT trust the judgment and skills of LEO's over a civilian since many civilians are far more highly trained and experienced than a typical local cop. I would have to take it on a case by case basis for civilians and cops.

Well, I personally am unfamiliar with the amount of training that they do receive. I would hope that it would be adequate enough that they could shoot the right person. I think that if they are allowed to carry a gun, they should be able to show proficiency.