Firearms

[cracklingkraken]

I thought this was an interesting discussion that happened to pop-up on a certain social media site. How many of you conceal carry? And what do you think about prohibiting firearms on hospital property?

I think with the increasing violence these days, safety is a major concern for everyone. How do you protect yourself and still abide by the rules set by your facility?

[heron, ASN, RN]

So ... Who gets to deal with treating injuries and all the fall-out from an accidental death? Especially one involving guns and/or innocent bystanders.

That's way beyond sentinel event. The paperwork, the memos, the meetings, oh my! I suspect that liability costs alone would discourage facility owners from allowing CC as a matter of written policy.

I've read some very reasonable posts in this thread by shooters. I've also read posts that put the hair up on the back of my neck.

It's seems to me that a healthcare facility is always going to have a higher concentration of people who are out of control or behaviorally disturbed. I'm unconvinced that adding concealed fire-arms is going to make anybody safer.

I really can't afford to stop working just because some out-of-control person is having a Robo Cop moment. That's not fair, either.

[meowmeowchirp, BSN]

No body going to touch on Oregon? One more shooting in the states...

[PMFB-RN, RN]

No body going to touch on Oregon? One more shooting in the states...

It is (I believe) in American's nature to slaughter each other on a regular basis. Well that's not right since we also slaughter people around the world pretty regularly, as evidenced most recently by hundreds of thousands of dead and maimed Iraqi women and children.

Its just what Americans do. The devices and tools used to do so will not make any difference IMO. Take away one and we simply move on to another.

I believe this is related to the highly religious nature of our country.

[ixchel]

I'm not sure how much training goes on in other states, but what I do know is that in my state, my state employed law enforcement spouse had to go through rather rigorous training to handle a gun, including how to disarm a person who gets his weapon from him. He then had to pass a qualification exam (by demonstration, of course) before being allowed to be issued a gun. I would hope this would happen elsewhere.

[akulahawkRN, ADN, RN, EMT-P]

I'm not sure how much training goes on in other states, but what I do know is that in my state, my state employed law enforcement spouse had to go through rather rigorous training to handle a gun, including how to disarm a person who gets his weapon from him. He then had to pass a qualification exam (by demonstration, of course) before being allowed to be issued a gun. I would hope this would happen elsewhere.

I'm also somewhat familiar with the level of training that law enforcement officers receive in terms of firearms use, use of force, and weapons retention. I would say that the level of training that the typical LEO receives is more like a floor. Sure, you can go beyond that, but many don't. You don't have to be a LEO to get training that is equivalent to that floor.... or to exceed that by quite a bit. Again, many don't do that. Here's something to think about, and something to ask your husband: now that he's a working cop, how often does he have to demonstrate his retention skills, shoot a requalification course, and go through a legal update, to academy standards?

I know that in California, a CCW holder must sit through a legal refresher course and requalify by shooting a course of fire. That's a requirement.

If I were a CCW holder, there are very few places that I would actually NOT be allowed to carry. There isn't a hospital in my County that actually doing so is illegal. If discovered, I can be asked to leave, but that's a trespass issue, not a gun issue. If I was discovered doing so as an employee, my employer could sanction me, but I would still NOT face criminal repercussions. Again, a civil matter, not a criminal one. The same goes for any other business. This, I know for certain, is not the case in all states. In some states, an exactly properly worded sign carries a weight of law that invalidates a CCW license upon that property.

[elkpark]

It is (I believe) in American's nature to slaughter each other on a regular basis. Well that's not right since we also slaughter people around the world pretty regularly, as evidenced most recently by hundreds of thousands of dead and maimed Iraqi women and children.

Its just what Americans do. The devices and tools used to do so will not make any difference IMO. Take away one and we simply move on to another.

I believe this is related to the highly religious nature of our country.

Even if that is true (which I would dispute, since the vast majority of us go our entire lives without "slaughtering" another individual (on an individual basis, that is, and the support for our various military adventures around the world is certainly not unanimous), how can you say with a straight face that "the devices and tools used to do so will not make any difference IMO. Take away one and we simply move on to another." As the old cliche' goes, how many people get killed each year in drive-by stabbings? (How many innocent bystanders get caught in the "cross-stabbing"?) How many people would be killed if a disgruntled individual walked into a full movie theatre and started throwing rocks (or attempting to knock people over the head with rocks)? How can anyone possibly propose that the type of weapon makes no difference?

[azhiker96, BSN, RN]

The weapon doesn't matter to the deceased. A check of FBI data shows plenty of people killed by things other than guns.

[heron, ASN, RN]

Asbestos causes cancer, therefore second-hand tobacco smoke is not a rational concern and I should be able to smoke anywhere.

The logic escapes me.

[PMFB-RN, RN]

It's worth mentioning that typically the training that LEO'S at the state level is often much more comprehensive that what may be recieve by the various village, town, city, and county level LEOs.

We only need to watch the news to see evidence of haphazard firearms training in law enforment. The instance not long ago where a bunch of cops fired hundreds of rounds at one black couple who where on their car is the perfect example. As a former member of a highly trained army unit I am often appalled at the lack of fire disipline and accuracy exibited by police.

[Farawyn]

It's worth mentioning that typically the training that LEO'S at the state level is often much more comprehensive that what may be recieve by the various village, town, city, and county level LEOs.

We only need to watch the news to see evidence of haphazard firearms training in law enforment. The instance not long ago where a bunch of cops fired hundreds of rounds at one black couple who where on their car is the perfect example. As a former member of a highly trained army unit I am often appalled at the lack of fire disipline and accuracy exibited by police.

I do have to say that I wish my LEO hubs had to qualify more than once a year.

[heron, ASN, RN]

PMFB-RN, your point is also a perfect example of the difference between a controlled setting like a firing range and a rapidly-evolving crisis in, say, a hospital. In a word: adrenalin.

[elkpark]

The weapon doesn't matter to the deceased. A check of FBI data shows plenty of people killed by things other than guns.

True. People get killed in all sorts of creative ways. But the numbers matter -- maybe not to the deceased, but certainly to the rest of us. What do the FBI data show about the number of people killed with guns vs. other types of weapons. And how many people were killed last year in mass stabbings? Mass poisonings? Mass clubbings?