Ever Killed Someone?

[Bug Out]

Weird topic I know but I think about this alot.

I always wonder out of the thousands of patients I have been assigned how many of them demised because of something I either did, did not do, did not do fast enough, did too fast, or just simply did not assess.

For example you give the Ativan that confuses the pt, pt crawls OOB, falls, breaks hip, eventually leads to demise of pt that would have otherwise went home safe and sound. OR you fail to see the s/s of some obscure syndrome and disease which leads to late treatment and eventual demise.

On the other hand, how many lives do you think you have saved?

Honest rough assessment, how many lives do you think you have directly saved through your actions/inactions and how many do you think (or know) demised because of your action/inaction.

P.S.

Pretty sure I killed 1 person, maybe 5-10 unknowingly?

Saved hundreds indirectly, I hope. I know I saved about 15 through direct action.

[Iseeyou_RN, RN]

i agree nurses should not be too uncomfortable with this subject-not at all! if they are then hmmm i would say they are in the wrong field-this cup of tea is not for everyone, lol.

i just think for the patient or patient's family it's pretty cold, but you're not addressing either, so i think it's fine.

you were straight to the point, what is that word??? hmmm there is in the english grammar called something that ppl use all the time, you know instead of die they say oh "passed away, going home, in a better place now", oh it's going to bug me now.

Euphemism? :)

[brownbook]

I was newish, I (fortunately) don't remember the details. I was on a medical/telemetry unit. My patient was doing something ??? weird ??? I just can't remember the details. I did call the first year intern (a teaching hospital) and he looked at the monitor, we both seemed to think/say ??? it is nothing, he is ok. About one hour later we called a code, he was rushed to CCU, didn't make it. I still feel I really missed something on that one. Did you kill any patients is a fine topic and appropriate use of the word!!!!

[roser13, ASN, RN]

"I find your taste of words for the topic of the title demeaning for nurses, for humans, for our profession.

.......

This feels like going for some shock value, so have at it. It turns me off.

This could have been an excellent subject if it had been presented with more respect."

Exactly. I have no problem whatsoever discussing this issue. As I said before, all nurses must ponder the topic at some point in their lives. But using the phrasing that OP did completely misrepresents how (I believe) the average nurse views his/her impact on his/her patients.

There is a huge, HUGE, difference between "killing" a patient and unintentionally causing harm by lack of knowledge, lack of skill, or even by indifference. The word "kill" implies intent to harm and I believe it has no place in a nursing forum.

I would hate like hell for new nurses reading that headline to take away the impression that a mistake, a med error, an undone assessment, or (fill-in-the-blank) on their part would be considered "killing" their patients. Most new nurses struggle just to keep up with their jobs at first and already feel plenty guilty at the end of their shifts. Let's not add to it.

[CNL2B]

I can't think of something that I did directly, but I have seen negligence happen directly.

I had a patient that was post-op something in the SICU, on HIGH pressure BiPAP (40/20) to keep him marginally oxygenated (sats 89-91%), and the team finally decided to intubate him. The CRNA on the anesthesia pager that responded did not 1. assess the patient accurately and 2. took WAYYYYY too long to do her job. These were near fatal errors for the patient. She actually treated this guy like it was an elective intubation, laid him flat, took his BiPAP off, gave him versed, and waited with the ETT at the HOB until he relaxed ... all the while with just blow-by O2 from the ambu going ... me reporting that his sats were 70 -- 50 -- 30 -- by the time she got around to putting the ETT down he was BLUE and bradying down with B/Ps 50s/30s. When she bagged, she couldn't get his sats up (horrible, horrible COPD) and it took over an HOUR to get his sats to barely 90 with maximum ventilation. We had to call a code. He got atropine, epi, chest compressions, the whole 9 yards (although he never did quite go asystole, but we couldn't get his HR or B/P up because he was so hypoxic.) The guy easily could have died. I am sure that event set his hospitalization back a few day to a week at a minimum. He did eventually go home though after being trached and a prolonged stay in acute rehab.

This was about as bad as it gets for a CRNA who is supposed to be the expert at maintaining someone's airway. It got written up and went to the highest level of peer review in the hospital (actually I initiated that process as a direct observer of the event). I do know that CRNA is still working there, but I haven't seen her on the beeper for awhile. I am wondering (hoping) her responsibilities were downgraded somewhat. Unfortunately I don't get the info on what happened to her directly (sealed info.) It really made me kind of sick.

So yes, killing people can and does happen and it can happen in just a few minutes if you screw up in certain situations. High responsibility practice areas I think carry a lot more of this risk.

[netglow, ASN, RN]

Wow, that one made me nauseous just by reading (I am/was currently eating).

[RNperdiem, RN]

If there are a few taboo topics in nursing, this one heads the list.

The controversy does not surprise me.

A taboo is a powerful force.

[TigerGalLE, BSN, RN]

Wow, that one made me nauseous just by reading (I am/was currently eating).

x2

I probably would have been screaming at her! Some people never cease to amaze me.

[roser13, ASN, RN]

If there are a few taboo topics in nursing, this one heads the list.

The controversy does not surprise me.

A taboo is a powerful force.

I have yet to see anyone saying that this is a taboo subject or one that cannot be talked about.

The "controversy" lies in the respect or lack thereof with which we treat the subject.

[porterwoman]

"I find your taste of words for the topic of the title demeaning for nurses, for humans, for our profession.

.......

This feels like going for some shock value, so have at it. It turns me off.

This could have been an excellent subject if it had been presented with more respect."

Exactly. I have no problem whatsoever discussing this issue. As I said before, all nurses must ponder the topic at some point in their lives. But using the phrasing that OP did completely misrepresents how (I believe) the average nurse views his/her impact on his/her patients.

There is a huge, HUGE, difference between "killing" a patient and unintentionally causing harm by lack of knowledge, lack of skill, or even by indifference. The word "kill" implies intent to harm and I believe it has no place in a nursing forum.

I would hate like hell for new nurses reading that headline to take away the impression that a mistake, a med error, an undone assessment, or (fill-in-the-blank) on their part would be considered "killing" their patients. Most new nurses struggle just to keep up with their jobs at first and already feel plenty guilty at the end of their shifts. Let's not add to it.

Yes! Yes yes yes. Well said, roser13.

What I see as taboo is the notion that nurses kill people. Nurses don't kill people as part of our professional lives. We do make mistakes. We do miss important clues that a patient is declining. But we don't kill people.

Death and dying are part and parcel of a nurse's life. Killing people is illegal, immoral, highly distasteful. Big difference, as I see it.

[whodatnurse]

Was not ment to be a serious discussion.

I do not contemplate these things in a serious manner, just thought it was an interesting reflection upon one's career.

I think everyone can agree that the workplace is stressful enough without having to stress out on an internet forum.

Most people have things like 'seen any good movies lately?' on their mental list of topics for casual conversation. So what else do you have on yours...'ever killed a kid? a baby? a friend's mother?' I find it incredible that you would regard such 'reflection' as light entertainment.

[Keepstanding, ASN, RN]

this thread has spawned an interesting idea..

do we ever really kill people or for that matter, save their lives, or only prolong/hasten death?

i think bugout is a troll ! ignore

praiser

[whodatnurse]

i think bugout is a troll ! ignore

praiser

i would certainly hope so!