I always wonder out of the thousands of patients I have been assigned how many of them demised because of something I either did, did not do, did not do fast enough, did too fast, or just simply did not assess.
For example you give the Ativan that confuses the pt, pt crawls OOB, falls, breaks hip, eventually leads to demise of pt that would have otherwise went home safe and sound. OR you fail to see the s/s of some obscure syndrome and disease which leads to late treatment and eventual demise.
On the other hand, how many lives do you think you have saved?
Honest rough assessment, how many lives do you think you have directly saved through your actions/inactions and how many do you think (or know) demised because of your action/inaction.
P.S.
Pretty sure I killed 1 person, maybe 5-10 unknowingly?
Saved hundreds indirectly, I hope. I know I saved about 15 through direct action.
Specializes in Education, FP, LNC, Forensics, ED, OB.
folks, i ask that everyone be respectful and not make your posts personal. just try and stick to the topic, o.k.?
i would respectfully ask everyone to avoid accusations of trolling. report posts that violate the tos, and ignore those for which you don't have a constructive response. to state that someone is trolling.....responding similarly is just chumming the waters.
My sister died about a year ago in Icu, she had diabetes since she was 12 was on dialysis, and had congestive heart failure. I had only been an Lpn for 6 months. My sis was short of breath and extremely anxious. Classic signs of blood clots, which was found a few days later. After not being able to dissolve the clots, she had open heart surgery. Few weeks after surgery became septic and died. I feel as if I should of suspected blood clots. So how's that far an answer. This is the first time I admitted that anywhere.
I was thinking today about all the replies to this thread. I began to think wow we are human and make mistakes.
I would think even the best nurse has made her/his mistakes.
I do believe that is what makes a good nurse from a bad nurse.
If a nurse misses vital info-then she has failed to do her job. I mean isn't that what a nurse's job is, to evaluate all the info and have the patient's best interest, truly their best interest.
I guess like any other profession, teacher etc. you can get real complacent with who you are on the job. That's pretty scary for a nurse to just do her job-there has to be compassion to drive a nurse to want to be there for the patient,especially when a patient is critically ill and can barely live through each day.
So i guess what i am saying is one nurse is not like the other-there are some better nurses than others-sad to say. Is it really okay to say well we all make mistakes???
Specializes in Med/Surge, Psych, LTC, Home Health.
Wow... you really do bring up an interesting topic. Honestly though, I think it's a lot like saying "Have you ever killed someone by... oh I don't know, your best friend asked you which movie they should go see, _Iron Man II_ or _Shrek Forever After_. You say, Definately go see Shrek, Iron Man was terrible. So your friend goes to the theatre where Shrek is playing... and someone blows up the theatre."
I don't think that a good, honest, hardworking nurse truly has any more to do with a patient's death than the man walking on the street outside. To say that, maybe I actually sound stupid and naive, but really... if a patient is that sick and it is meant to be, is there really anything that that nurse can really do about it??
I do suppose that an incompetent nurse could unintentionally cause the death of someone who may have lived another good twenty years... but not before that person goes to ICU, maybe even makes it back up to the floor, back down to ICU, and then dies. But, I guess an incompetent nurse could put someone in some major respiratory distress by say, cranking their 02 up to 8 liters when they are a CO2 retainer.
I might be having a hard time saying what I really mean, here.
Specializes in LTC, assisted living, med-surg, psych.
I think you articulated it just fine, NurseCard.
Most of us have had the experience of giving "the last dose of morphine" or assisting with that final turn. I'd even venture to say that most of us have done so with the knowledge that our ministrations would more than likely expedite the dying process by a few minutes or hours.
But there's a world of difference, IMO, between administering a medication or treatment that gently pushes the patient over the edge in the process of achieving pain/symptom relief, and deliberately drawing up an overdose/ignoring deteriorating LOC or VS in a full-code patient/employing a bit of "pillow therapy". And no, I don't find anything even remotely humorous or "light" about this discussion; this is as serious as it gets, and while there's no reason why we shouldn't talk about it, the topic should be treated with the gravity it deserves.
Carry on.........this is a very important discussion and should continue. :)
Exactly-true. I was just reading up on some posts @ RN or BSN which is more competent? Most replies agreed that a nurse is a nurse but there was one replier that made a lot of sense. He/She said that a nurse with an ADN is just thrown out there and has to learn very quickly in all that she does, and that a nurse with a BSN gets better educated and is more competent than a RN with ADN. They said it's proven that the mortality rates are much lower with the nurse who has the BSN than the one that has the ADN. Sounded right on-so many nurses complain about being scared their first few months (almost not enough).
I have had this thread on my mind since I read the first few posts this morning (before it reached where it is now). I think this is a good topic if viewed in the light I think it was really meant.
What I get out of this thread is "What have your experiences been, and recurrent thoughts/feelings on people you know you have had a hand in their death (or continued life for that matter)?" I know the standard answer for anyone who has been in healthcare for any amount of time is how we of course help people every day. Whether it be comforting them as they die or helping them get through another day.
Even though we are all aware that, despite our best efforts and intentions, some people just don't make it, why then do we still carry some of those people with us? I know I do. Before becoming a nurse I was a medic with the fire department. I know there are people I didn't even bother provide basic supportive care to (jaw thrust etc) because their injuries were obviously not survivable (and luckily I worked under protocols that allowed for me the ability to make those decisions). Luckily I do not carry many of these individuals with me. However, those that I do tend to creep up on me periodically. I remember one man who was having a heart attack (the BIG one!!); he lived in a gang ridden area of town, was in his early 50's and appeared healthy; slim, obviously worked out etc. My partner at the time was fixated on the thought that it was drug related. I suspected otherwise (and was promptly confirmed once the monitor was in place). All I remember telling the guy was "I believe you, and we're gonna do everything we can for you" because he kept saying "I don't do drugs." I remeber his wife crying on the couch; I also remember her following behind my rescue in her car to the hospital and then seeing my commanders SUV pull in front of her car behind us as I started chest compressions on the guy (hoping the wife didn't witness that). Hindsight is always 20/20. I know his outcome would not be any different if I had done XYZ or if I was "faster." But for some reason, he still lingers in my thoughts every once in a while. So I have learned to put him to use for me. From that experience I learned to follow my gut instinct. My partner at the time was older and had a lot more experience than me. It is difficult to stand up and say "I don't think so. . ." but there are times when it is necessary. Again, the outcome would not have been different, but it has taught me to be more in tune with my instincts.
HiHo-thank you for your post. A lesson we sometimes learn to late.
Miss Becky- your post made me ill. It reminds me that incompetence, arrogance, and apathy occur in every profession- even those dedicated to saving lives. We all know nurses and doctors we don't want anywhere near us!
I for one am enjoying this discussion. Some have posted that while nurses perhaps through an innocent mistake, poor systems, poor judgement may have lead to a patients demise. Is it because the alternative (deliberate malicious intent) is too horrific to think about? Have any of you worked with anyone that you felt was capable of deliberately hurting a patient? Criminals occur in every segment of society. Nursing is no exception.
I am reminded of an incident with a former (now unlicensed) coworker. A patient received a wrong medication, one she has experienced an adverse reaction with. Allegedly, it was given by this nurse to this patient in an attempt to frame the patient's assigned nurse. Fortunately, the patient suffered no ill effects. To keep it short, there was no discipline for the primary nurse and it was never concretely determined exactly how the patient got that medication. But I learned a valuable lesson, my friends. Do not underestimate that there are people in our profession that we come in contact with, that we may even work with who may indeed purposely harm someone. Do you not believe there are colleagues who abuse their spouses, children, or parents? I do not say this to be sensational or or to cause conflict- just to share a story and to remind us that you never really know most of the people you work with.
Now to answer the original question...
I have not directly killed a patient in my care, either accidentally or otherwise.
Indirectly?? who knows?
As an ER nurse, I have the distinct privilege to bring people back from the edge every day. Even though many survive only to die later, it is still one of the most rewarding parts of my job.
is not like the other-there are some better nurses than others-sad to say. Is it really okay to say well we all make mistakes???
TigerGalLE, BSN, RN
713 Posts
a troll with 286 posts?