I am not sure if it is true or not, but I heard that RNs get a little extra pay when they work on a day where nursing students are present. If the charge RN assigned a student to an RN, then they get the extra pay.
I am talking about college nursing students not training a new employee.
It just came on top of my head because I have been assigned to lousy RNs during my clinical rotations and it feels like they should be more engaged with students
Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
WOW! So much self righteousness in some of the responses in this thread!
I don't believe anyone here argued that incivility is a right. What we HAVE argued is that patients come first, and if the nurse cannot conceal a bad mood from the student, the student ought not to conclude it has anything to do with them. It might just be close family members dying, too many caregiving responsibilities at home, back pain, cancer treatment or something else that has absolutely nothing to do with the students.
Most of us manage to conceal our bad moods from the patients, but when a student is following you everywhere (even, sometimes, to the bathroom) it is difficult to conceal the bad mood from them. And while a bad mood is not a right, by any means, it does happen in the real world.
Now, now, Ruby...you must rise above! You must put aside your trivial personal needs, especially when you have a student.
WOW! So much self righteousness in some of the responses in this thread!
I don't believe anyone here argued that incivility is a right. What we HAVE argued is that patients come first, and if the nurse cannot conceal a bad mood from the student, the student ought not to conclude it has anything to do with them. It might just be close family members dying, too many caregiving responsibilities at home, back pain, cancer treatment or something else that has absolutely nothing to do with the students.
Most of us manage to conceal our bad moods from the patients, but when a student is following you everywhere (even, sometimes, to the bathroom) it is difficult to conceal the bad mood from them. And while a bad mood is not a right, by any means, it does happen in the real world.
So, if life kicks you in the butt, there will be casualties in the work place? It is the real world and in the real world, people in the caring business should try to care. If that includes knowing that you are having a crummy day or a crummy life, self-assess, acknowledge it, do your best not to take it out on others. Trying is the best that some of us can do. It's sad when people stop trying.
The practice used to be that the manager or clinical educator would courteously ask ahead of time, if the nurse was willing to work with a student. The nurse would be given the dates and times the students would be attending and the skills they were hoping to learn. The instructors remained visible on the unit and assessed the students medication knowledge before they allowed the students to give them to patients. If a student could not answer the instructors questions they were often sent home. The practice has changed over the years, now instead of courteous requests, the nurses are often told the same day that they are getting a student. The instructor disappears and leaves the student with the nurse, the student may be very weak or very strong in their knowledge base and communication skills. All of these factors make it difficult know where the student is at in the learning curve and where to start teaching them.
In my program we are assigned 1-2 patients day of. The instructor works on the unit pt still so she knows the staff. She stays on the unit with us. We have to verify all meds with her and let her know of any skills that arise that we have not performed outside of the lab. All of the nurses on the floor are fantastic with us :)
HALL-2010, are you currently working as a nurse in an environment which takes clinical students? You say it's a sad day when people quit trying, but the point of these replies is that we ARE trying our best....for our PATIENT....and sometimes that translates into a less-than-satisfying experience for students when on our unit. No one here is saying students suck, or that we don't care about them, or that we wish we didn't have them.
It has been shared that there are CIs who drop off their students and leave it to the floor RNs to provide their learning for the day. That's just not okay. I'm fortunate to have one of my former CIs on my floor weekly, and she is excellent at leading their clinical experience. She would never leave them unattended and they must pass meds with only her, if they are passing meds. That being said, I've been in the position where two of my three patient assignment has new students assigned to them. I still have to do MY assessment and act on it accordingly, even if they aren't passing meds, and answer a dozen phone calls, and speak with all of the physician team (teaching hospital) and arrange for transport to tests, etc, not to mention caring for my third very ill patient. Even if I wanted to be the sole source of education for a student, it would not be easy in such a setting, so yes, if one feels students ease the workload, then one indeed would be naive. In the easiest of situations, it's tripling my workload, as I'm doing my job, checking theirs, and then trying to teach on top of it.
I really enjoy teaching, so please don't get me wrong. I really enjoy having students. I remember the nurses who reached out to me while I was in clinical and have fond memories of some amazing mentors who helped me "get it", whatever "it" was at the time. Please remember, however, that we often aren't asked but rather told we are getting students, often right as we walk in, with patients we may not know anything about, who may be critically ill, and we are human, just like you are, and sometimes we're rushed, or frustrated, or sick, sometimes we have to take additional bookings because of low staffing, and it's not humanly possible to be everything to everyone.
In my program we are assigned 1-2 patients day of. The instructor works on the unit pt still so she knows the staff. She stays on the unit with us. We have to verify all meds with her and let her know of any skills that arise that we have not performed outside of the lab. All of the nurses on the floor are fantastic with us :)
Your instructor is doing what is expected of her, it used to be all clinical instructors followed this expectation, now unfortunately, some do not. At first I was sceptical and didn't believe any instructor would abandon their students on a unit, but then I witnessed one leave the hospital and return two hours later with a shopping bag in her hand.
Your instructor is doing what is expected of her, it used to be all clinical instructors followed this expectation, now unfortunately, some do not. At first I was sceptical and didn't believe any instructor would abandon their students on a unit, but then I witnessed one leave the hospital and return two hours later with a shopping bag in her hand.
I can't imagine being on a floor without my CI! We are fully informed that we are guests of the hospital staff.
So, if life kicks you in the butt, there will be casualties in the work place? It is the real world and in the real world, people in the caring business should try to care. If that includes knowing that you are having a crummy day or a crummy life, self-assess, acknowledge it, do your best not to take it out on others. Trying is the best that some of us can do. It's sad when people stop trying.
She didn't say she "takes it out on others," she said that students might notice that she's in a bad mood and having a difficult day. Despite her efforts to cover it up. So sorry that's not good enough for you ...
***I am a student nurse, so this is coming from MY perspective given all of the feedback going on in previous comments.***
Here is the tl;dr version of how I think things should be:
-Students should be responsible for completing tasks that they are allowed to, and should be responsible for knowing what they can and cannot complete on the floor during clinicals.
-I believe that instructors should do the bulk of the teaching, but there are some things that can only be "shown" and so I think that is where nurses come in to their "teaching" role, if you would even call it that. However, students should be responsible for stepping up to the plate and asking to watch, not waiting around for a nurse to usher them in.
-As a professional, you should conduct yourself with an appropriate attitude when students are present. We know we're in the way, we don't need your eye rolls, your condescending comments, or your huffs. Think about it- you were once us. How would it make you feel? Even more in the way, unappreciated, dumb? Yeah.
-The laissez-faire attitude that you simply don't give a damn about student nurses is why this profession is deemed catty (well, that and the patriarchy, but that's for another time). Please give us the time of day (when you have the chance)- most of us really appreciate it.
-I understand that it may not be your choice to be my "parent" for the day, but it is not our problem. It is the administration's problem, or the school's problem. Please don't take it out on us.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
***I am a student nurse, so this is coming from MY perspective given all of the feedback going on in previous comments.***
Here is the tl;dr version of how I think things should be:
-Students should be responsible for completing tasks that they are allowed to, and should be responsible for knowing what they can and cannot complete on the floor during clinicals.
-I believe that instructors should do the bulk of the teaching, but there are some things that can only be "shown" and so I think that is where nurses come in to their "teaching" role, if you would even call it that.
-As a professional, you should conduct yourself with an appropriate attitude when students are present. We know we're in the way, we don't need your eye rolls, your condescending comments, or your huffs. Think about it- you were once us. How would it make you feel? Even more in the way, unappreciated, dumb? Yeah.
-The laissez-faire attitude that you simply don't give a damn about student nurses is why this profession is deemed catty (well, that and the patriarchy, but that's for another time). Please give us the time of day (when you have the chance)- most of us really appreciate it.
-I understand that it may not be your choice to be my "parent" for the day, but it is not our problem. It is the administration's problem, or the school's problem. Please don't take it out on us.
(Alright, let's see how much hate I'll get.)
Have you read all ten pages of replies from real nurses working in the real world? If you have, and you STILL don't get it, you're not paying attention.
No one has suggested NOT conducting oneself in a professional manner when students are around, but students get to follow you places your patients can't. The student who follows me into the bathroom (again) may get a reaction from me that you don't consider appropriate. I'm sorry about that, but nurses are human, and a bathroom break ought to be private. Many students apparently DON'T get it that they're in the way.
Again, no one has said they don't give a damn about students, but (again), it is NOT our job to teach you. That's what your clinical instructor is paid for. OUR job is to take care of the patients, and THEY come first, even if that interferes with you're "learning needs."
We nurses don't deserve your eyerolls, your huffs, your nasty attitudes or your sense of entitlement. Go back and READ the thread. Open your mind. And have some compassion for the working nurses that you apparently aspire to join.
-Reduced CI:student ratio. When you have 1 CI to 10 students, and the CI must be there for nursing tasks (med passes, Foleys, etc.), you're obviously not going to get an adequate amount of time to do all of those things.
HALL-2010, are you currently working as a nurse in an environment which takes clinical students? You say it's a sad day when people quit trying, but the point of these replies is that we ARE trying our best....for our PATIENT....and sometimes that translates into a less-than-satisfying experience for students when on our unit. No one here is saying students suck, or that we don't care about them, or that we wish we didn't have them.
It has been shared that there are CIs who drop off their students and leave it to the floor RNs to provide their learning for the day. That's just not okay. I'm fortunate to have one of my former CIs on my floor weekly, and she is excellent at leading their clinical experience. She would never leave them unattended and they must pass meds with only her, if they are passing meds. That being said, I've been in the position where two of my three patient assignment has new students assigned to them. I still have to do MY assessment and act on it accordingly, even if they aren't passing meds, and answer a dozen phone calls, and speak with all of the physician team (teaching hospital) and arrange for transport to tests, etc, not to mention caring for my third very ill patient. Even if I wanted to be the sole source of education for a student, it would not be easy in such a setting, so yes, if one feels students ease the workload, then one indeed would be naive. In the easiest of situations, it's tripling my workload, as I'm doing my job, checking theirs, and then trying to teach on top of it.
I really enjoy teaching, so please don't get me wrong. I really enjoy having students. I remember the nurses who reached out to me while I was in clinical and have fond memories of some amazing mentors who helped me "get it", whatever "it" was at the time. Please remember, however, that we often aren't asked but rather told we are getting students, often right as we walk in, with patients we may not know anything about, who may be critically ill, and we are human, just like you are, and sometimes we're rushed, or frustrated, or sick, sometimes we have to take additional bookings because of low staffing, and it's not humanly possible to be everything to everyone.
I've been in healthcare for 10 years and an RN for 4 months. The tone of your recent post was honest and not hostile. The posts of the first 7 or 9 pages were hostile towards students. The idea of having to teach was "not my job." Are there other factors at play? Of course...BUT...It seemed that there was cheering on to the mantra of ALL students are "entitled" "snowflakes" and screw the bastards for thinking that they can tap into my knowledge base.
My criticism is that we could do better than that. During our orientations as students and new employees, they ENCOURAGE us to ask questions; they encourage us to tap into the knowledge base around us. I was taught by my CI in most cases and by my nurse some of the time. Yes, it would be great if the CIs didn't disappear and were always there to teach. During my schooling, most CIs were around and attentive. Some were not around; for those days, I was grateful that I had amazing nurses that taught me.
Specializes in Tele, Interventional Pain Management, OR.
As a final-semester nursing student completing her last clinical rotation on an adult cardiac/tele floor...
Can I just say THANK YOU to the RNs I've worked with this past month?
They sure don't get paid extra to deal with us, but the nurses really try to make students feel like the "real nurse" with our two (and in my case, three) patient assignments.
With that being said, our program requires us to tell the nurse exactly what we can/can't do during our shift. We do this in writing on a standardized form supplied by the school, and also with our mouths, haha. And our CI (plus school-affiliated medication assistant--an RN who's not a professor but a skills/meds person) must be present for all skills, non-"business-as-usual" patient situations, and IV stuff besides flushing--they are present for IV starts, IVP, IVPB and any/all PICC line stuff.
Seriously, if I even ASSESSED a PICC line without my instructor or med assist, she'd probably teleport herself the the patient's room. They are ALWAYS accessible via text message, which I feel compelled to explain to any nurse who sees me on my phone during clinical...
None of this erases the fact that "our" nurses learn about having a student in the moment when we walk up and introduce ourselves at like 0645. Awkward. I don't blame anyone who's less than enthusiastic about having a student when all s/he wants to do is get report and begin his/her day.
OCNRN63, RN
5,979 Posts
Now, now, Ruby...you must rise above! You must put aside your trivial personal needs, especially when you have a student.
After all, the ANA says so!