I am not sure if it is true or not, but I heard that RNs get a little extra pay when they work on a day where nursing students are present. If the charge RN assigned a student to an RN, then they get the extra pay.
I am talking about college nursing students not training a new employee.
It just came on top of my head because I have been assigned to lousy RNs during my clinical rotations and it feels like they should be more engaged with students
I think clinicals are more paying back into the system- someone showed you, you show someone else. My clinicals ended up mostly being another CNA because when we would show up, the floor was always short handed of all staff, so it would start off as "would you mind...enter CNA duty here".
Where I work now to move up the foodchain of CN "clinical nurse" steps you must check off preceptorship as a leadership qualification. You don't have to but then again you don't have to get promoted either.
I'm hearing more and more about online RN programs and distant education NP programs where clinicals aren't even part of it anymore. I'm not a big fan of nursing education as it is now because to me they don't teach nursing, they teach passing a 75 question test and expect your first couple employers to teach new grads. I believe the shortest RN program I've heard of is 10 months.
I think clinicals are more paying back into the system- someone showed you, you show someone else. My clinicals ended up mostly being another CNA because when we would show up, the floor was always short handed of all staff, so it would start off as "would you mind...enter CNA duty here".
Where I work now to move up the foodchain of CN "clinical nurse" steps you must check off preceptorship as a leadership qualification. You don't have to but then again you don't have to get promoted either.
I'm hearing more and more about online RN programs and distant education NP programs where clinicals aren't even part of it anymore. I'm not a big fan of nursing education as it is now because to me they don't teach nursing, they teach passing a 75 question test and expect your first couple employers to teach new grads. I believe the shortest RN program I've heard of is 10 months.
Then I guess I'll have to pay back to the clinical instructors because that's who taught me. I rarely had contact with the floor nurse.
As to the second bolded there are no on-line pre-licensure progrrams that do not require clinicals. If you are speaking of rn-bsn that is an entry level degree and virtually all students enrolled have met their state's requirement for clinical education. These are "fill in the gaps" programs that primarily deal with theory and some liberal arts type classes. Trust me I didn't need anymore clinicals than my 24 years as a nurse hadn't already provided.
Specializes in Nurse Leader specializing in Labor & Delivery.
I'm hearing more and more about online RN programs and distant education NP programs where clinicals aren't even part of it anymore.
You are mistaken. There are NO NP programs that do not require clinicals. It's a licensing requirement, I believe the minimum number of hours is 600 for licensure.
And as the previous poster mentioned, there are also NO prelicensure RN programs that do not require clinicals either. Also a licensing requirement. You cannot sit for the NCLEX without it.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
When I was a student I never felt entitled to any attention from nurses, if anything I knew they were doing ME a favour by teaching me when they had the time.
When I was in clinical, my CI knew which nurses didn't want students, so she would make sure we weren't paired with them.
I understand we are overworked and having someone following us all day expecting to teach them can be an extra stress, but let's not forget how that student feels.
Students see these nurses as role models, and want to learn from them. If you are having a bad day, try to make arrangements so you can get "rid" of the student, most facilities ask you before you take anyone ( the ones I know ) . It's better to do that than to make the student feel awful for trying to learn.
This entire thread shows how nurses "eat their young". Sad to see because as a new grad myself, I have nothing but admiration and respect for older nurses.
I learned most of my skills and "critical thinking" from amazing nurses on the floors, who opened up to me. They helped me gain confidence and I will forever be thankful.
Also, we do have a responsibility towards nursing students (not only patients). They are the nurses of tomorrow, and it would be a shame for them to see how much separation and anger we have among each other .
This thread demonstrates how little regard students have for the nurses who they expect will meet their copious needs for "support", "encouragement" and "teaching."
Unless you've been in those shoes, you really cannot understand how it feels to be overworked and having someone dog your heels all day expecting to be taught. We've all been students; we know how the student feels. The students have no idea how the experienced nurse feels, and judging from what I've read in this and other threads, they really don't care, either. It's all about the student. That's not nurses eating their young. That's students chomping down on their elders.
We can't "make the student feel awful for wanting to learn." That's under the student's control. As Eleonor Roosevelt said, "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Nor can we "get rid of " the student as easily as you suggest. Administration really doesn't care about your bad day, and your immediate supervisor can't do anything about it. We're stuck. In all the endless whining the students seem to do about how the nurse should have "compassion" for them and their learning needs, I haven't seen it written that the students should have compassion for the experienced nurse and THEIR needs.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
On the last day of clinicals, I left my pod and made sure to say goodbye to my nurse. She looked at me with total sincerity and said "ahhhh, sorry you guys are leaving, we appreciate the help". Ok, maybe that's not what she said word for word but it was something along those lines. I'm a relatively sensible person, I could tell she was being sincere. There was three of us by the way, and we were all trying to focus our efforts on being helpful.
I just think you guys might be generalizing a little. You're taking your perspective and YOUR experience and applying to every situation. If you're an introvert and get irratated by having to teach, that's fine, I get it. It's totally understandable. But don't discourage other students by telling them that we're a burden all the time.
I'm sure your nurse was being very polite and demonstrating great compassion for your needs. But do not think that you are really helpful all of the time or even a little bit of the time. Students really do increase the work load exponentially -- even if you're not an introvert or irritated by teaching.
We have a fair system of deciding whose turn it is to have students that day. I rather enjoy having students. :-) We don't get paid any extra for students, but we do get paid just a tiny bit extra for precepting newly hired nurses
Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
Nope, no extra money. My assignment isn't any lighter, either.
I can be fairly certain that when my father was dying, I had to take care of a mother with Alzheimer's, my dog was dying and I was undergoing cancer treatment, I wasn't in a very good mood. It had nothing to do with the student I wasn't asked if I would agree to teach but rather stuck with, until that student started complaining about the "lousy nurse" he got stuck with to his peeps -- loudly enough for me to hear him down the hall.
Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
Overused and inappropriate.
Find some other way to disagree that you think working nurses should be thrilled to have the additional responsibility of picking up the slack lazy, (and apparently overpaid) clinical instructors dump on the staff nurse caring for their student nurse's patient.
"Nurses eat their young" should be the Godwin's Law of argumentation of points related to new nurses/seasoned nurses.
My facility works with some odd 10 or so different schools of nursing. As bedside RNs, we do not receive extra compensation for working with students, nor do we receive a differential for precepting (although it does help you move up your 'clinical ladder').
I don't mind having a student with me. I love to teach. And when I take on a student, I make it their responsibility to know and be accountable for the tasks they can and cannot complete with my supervision. If I'm not comfortable with their level of knowledge/skill, I simply ask them to observe, and they can either continue on assigned to me or request a different nurse. I don't take offense one way or the other.
My facility makes its best effort to pair students with willing nurses. The day charge asks each RN if they'd mind having a student. Those that decline simply do not get anyone assigned to them. Not everyone likes to come in and have their routine interrupted. And we're not obligated to do so. Use of our facility and accessibility to our patients is a privilege and you're certainly not entitled to have your own personal bedside RN as a CI. Your CI should be ultimately responsible for either a) pairing you up with an RN willing to take on a student or b) being the source of your clinical instruction.
During my first job in retail clothing, I learned a valuable lesson. "Everyone has bad days, drama, etc. Life happens...but, when you walk through those doors" and the manager pointed at the store entrance, "the bad day, the attitude, all that negative stuff stays outside." Fast forward 20 years, it seems like that's a lesson that anyone involved in a position that works with clients and colleagues should still aim to master.
Here are my thoughts:
OP, I appreciate your point about having had nurses that may not have been engaging or may have been rude. Unfortunately, the tone felt like the "blame game" and the result was a textbook response of people defending themselves because they feel as if they are under attack. Communication is key to any enterprise succeeding. Apparently, that "Professional Roles as a Nurse" course did have some value.
Now, the interesting thing about perpetrators of domestic violence is that they feel that they were in the right because their spouse was so "stupid" or "should have known better" than to trigger the angry reaction. It isn't someone else's responsibility to "not trigger" you, it is your responsibility to control your emotions and leave the negative stuff at the door. I see nurses name calling, and displaying other behaviors that do qualify as "nursing incivility." The "sink or swim" attitude that follows "that's how I learned to be a nurse," or "you are a special snowflake because you expect courtesy" does not produce a therapeutic milieu. As nurses, it is our job to refrain from incivility.
Nurses, please remember your ANA Nursing code of Ethics. Provision 1.5 calls for the respectful treatment of your colleagues and others.
The principle of respect for persons extends to all individuals with whom the nurse interacts. The nurse maintains compassionate and caring relationships with colleagues and others with a commitment to the fair treatment of individuals, to integrity-preserving compromise, and to resolving conflict. Nurses function in many roles, including direct care provider, administrator, educator, researcher, and consultant. In each of these roles, the nurse treats colleagues, employees, assistants, and students with respect and compassion. This standard of conduct precludes any and all prejudicial actions, any form of harassment or threatening behavior, or disregard for the effect of one's actions on others. The nurse values the distinctive contribution of individuals or groups, and collaborates to meet the shared goal of providing quality health services.
As far as teaching / mentoring not being a part of your job, please remember provision 7 of the ANA Nursing code of Ethics. As a nurse, it is our duty to be in mentorship roles, disseminate information, and train others in order to advance the profession.
Finally, I will reference a great post that some of you may have already seen. I think that the anger, preconceptions, and attitudes in this thread highlights the points of the post.
klone, MSN, RN
14,857 Posts
I'm posting on my phone. I did not see an "unlike" option. Maybe when I get my lazy ass out of bed and find my laptop I will fix it. 😄