The new nursing standard favors ADN over diploma for recruitment by hospitals for their professionalism skill/knowledge to reach higher patient care quality.
The questions will be about the difference between these degrees in term
The requirement to get admission for such a program
Credits hours to finish / Time
Competency
or Additional info would be appreciated.
From gathered data from multiple articles and summarized briefly
The requirement for the Diploma admission is the completion of secondary education
It takes three years to attend hospital classes
Competency would be nursing assistance
The other discussion would be about the difference and opinions about both degrees.
Should we remove diplomas from nursing programs? Why?
My opinion would be ( Personally ) to remove diploma degree and encourage students to aim for ADN instead of diploma to be more competent and educated. The rationale to get better patient care as the average intelligence of nurses would be higher.
Yes!! If we really wanted the best nursing programs, they'd all be diploma programs with a segue (after passing the boards) into a college for a year or two to complete a BSN.
I almost did that, but the only college in my town that would let me go on to the BSN was incredibly expensive. It was $250/credit hour, and they required a full 2 years to get the BSN. That's $1,000 per class. That was at least $16,000 for 2 years. I couldn't afford that.
The state university was about $55/credit hour.
Of course, we're talking 1979 dollars, where I brought home a $400 paycheck . . . every 2 weeks! And that was working full time in a hospital.
Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
3 hours ago, Jedrnurse said:
Yes!! If we really wanted the best nursing programs, they'd all be diploma programs with a segue (after passing the boards) into a college for a year or two to complete a BSN.
2 hours ago, Kitiger said:
I almost did that, but the only college in my town that would let me go on to the BSN was incredibly expensive. It was $250/credit hour, and they required a full 2 years to get the BSN. That's $1,000 per class. That was at least $16,000 for 2 years. I couldn't afford that.
The state university was about $55/credit hour.
Of course, we're talking 1979 dollars, where I brought home a $400 paycheck . . . every 2 weeks! And that was working full time in a hospital.
One of the best attributes of the diploma nurses was (and I say was only because I haven't come across a diploma-educated nurse in quite a while) the fact they were taught from the bottom up, and learned CNA skills as the foundations of nursing care I feel they actually are.
Nursing care delivery seems to have become more of a divided hierarchy as time has gone by, which only makes sense as nurses must delegate owing to time and staffing constraints, but I have witnessed what happens when there is no aide around and an RN whose school felt it unnecessary to train their students in these skills is required to provide them anyway.
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
My hospital has a very demanding nine month nurse residency for new grads going into critical care and has since 2005. Average cohort size is 14 with about half going into SICU and the other half split into MICU, PICU & ED. Program requires new hires to sign a three year prorated contract. The hospital is usually pretty aggressive about going after it's money for those who do not complete their contract. Especially for those that leave for other hospitals or who leave to attend CRNA school. On the other hand one nurse had a pre term baby with a lot of health issues and quite her job to care for him and the hospital made no attempt to collect the money.
We have collected some interesting data. A while ago the program director mined the data and we discovered that the new grads age was the single factor most predictive of completion of the program (older = more likely to be successful).
Successful completion of the residency sorted by nurse's educational preparation.
We have collected some interesting data. A while ago the program director mined the data and we discovered that the new grads age was the single factor most predictive of completion of the program (older = more likely to be successful).
Successful completion of the residency sorted by nurse's educational preparation.
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
29 minutes ago, JKL33 said:
What do you make of these numbers?
The diploma grads are the smallest sample size. 100% have competed the residency, but there have only been a few of them. The ADN grads tend to be much older than the BSN grads. There have been some older BSN grads from Accelerated BSN programs but mostly 21-23 year old BSN grads, vs ADN grads usually in their 30's.
The direct entry masters grads as a group have left a very unfavorable impression on us.
The fact that age is the most predictive factor for program success and not educational preparation tells me that how one enters nursing probably isn't very important.
"encourage students to aim for ADN instead of diploma to be more competent and educated. The rationale to get better patient care as the average intelligence of nurses would be higher. "
Absurd... One of my favorite colleagues just retired and he was a diploma nurse... far better prepped at graduation than was I and simply one of the smartest, finest nurses ever to bear the title.
Well, you have a point. Having people with say Diploma would be intelligent is something I had experienced. Still, with my experience, those with such degrees had much practical experience; however, that does not answer my question for the new graduates. Do you think offering nursing students higher education programs would make a difference positively or not really? like if 50 Nursing students with diploma program graduated and 50 Nursing students with ADN program graduated
both with the same experience, only the variable is an education program.
Do you think offering nursing students higher education programs would make a difference positively or not really? like if 50 Nursing students with diploma program graduated and 50 Nursing students with ADN program graduated
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
Having multiple entry paths to nursing is one of the things that makes nurses and nursing awesome.
The community college ADN programs are still the primary path of entry for men, veterans and second or third career people of both sexes. The university BSN programs often attract the best and brightest young people. The Accelerated BSN programs bring professionals with a wealth of labor force experience.
This is why nurses are able to quickly develop therapeutic relationships with our patients. My observation is that many physician residents struggle with professional / patient communication that comes naturally to nurses. The typical physician in residency is a very different kind of person with a different background than their patients. Given that having a physician parents is the most predictive factor to getting accepted into medical school this shouldn't surprise us.
Nursing is one of the very few health professions NOT made up strictly of people who were able to attend a university for 4-8 years aft6er high school. This is a strength!
There are three different degrees that can lead to licensure as a physician in the USA. MD, DO & MBBS. This is a total non issue for physicians. Why does nursing in particular worry so much about paths to entry?
In my opinion its because our profession suffers from a deep seated inferiority complex.
This is why nurses are able to quickly develop therapeutic relationships with our patients. My observation is that many physician residents struggle with professional / patient communication that comes naturally to nurses. The typical physician in residency is a very different kind of person with a different background than their patients. Given that having a physician parents is the most predictive factor to getting accepted into medical school this shouldn't surprise us.
Or maybe nursing schools have more communication training than physicians? Because most of our practice as nurses is based on communication compared to physicians, they focus on the data gathered from nurses ( Nursing Assessment ) to diagnose patients within their knowledge of comprehensive
education on pathology and pharmacology.
Do you think that impacts communication? the education preparation or it come as naturally the communication skills
13 hours ago, PMFB-RN said:
Nursing is one of the very few health professions NOT made up strictly of people who were able to attend a university for 4-8 years aft6er high school. This is a strength!
Indeed
13 hours ago, PMFB-RN said:
There are three different degrees that can lead to licensure as a physician in the USA. MD, DO & MBBS. This is a total non issue for physicians. Why does nursing in particular worry so much about paths to entry?
Great point. I still believe a lot of it has do with many of those driving the BSN push being employed as program directors and professors at Colleges and Universities that have four year nursing programs. As inflation continues and tuitions skyrocket, enrollments at four year schools have been on the decline and many of those may fear losing their positions due to department cuts.
Great point. I still believe a lot of it has do with many of those driving the BSN push being employed as program directors and professors at Colleges and Universities that have four year nursing programs. As inflation continues and tuitions skyrocket, enrollments at four year schools have been on the decline and many of those may fear losing their positions due to department cuts.
Interesting. Articles quite often talk about the shortage of nursing faculty in colleges - how do you think that this squares with your point?
I started as a diploma back in 2013, got my BSN about 2 years later. I think it’s big education forcing this to make more money. It’s just raising the bar to do the same job. A MSN might get a few extra bucks, but on the floor we all do the same job (good and bad). Unless you’re an APRN, you’re still a regular nurse from the patient’s and doctor’s perspective.
Kitiger, RN
1,834 Posts
I almost did that, but the only college in my town that would let me go on to the BSN was incredibly expensive. It was $250/credit hour, and they required a full 2 years to get the BSN. That's $1,000 per class. That was at least $16,000 for 2 years. I couldn't afford that.
The state university was about $55/credit hour.
Of course, we're talking 1979 dollars, where I brought home a $400 paycheck . . . every 2 weeks! And that was working full time in a hospital.