The new nursing standard favors ADN over diploma for recruitment by hospitals for their professionalism skill/knowledge to reach higher patient care quality.
The questions will be about the difference between these degrees in term
The requirement to get admission for such a program
Credits hours to finish / Time
Competency
or Additional info would be appreciated.
From gathered data from multiple articles and summarized briefly
The requirement for the Diploma admission is the completion of secondary education
It takes three years to attend hospital classes
Competency would be nursing assistance
The other discussion would be about the difference and opinions about both degrees.
Should we remove diplomas from nursing programs? Why?
My opinion would be ( Personally ) to remove diploma degree and encourage students to aim for ADN instead of diploma to be more competent and educated. The rationale to get better patient care as the average intelligence of nurses would be higher.
How about the individual's intelligence when he was, let say, with a Bachelor then getting an MSN? Does that make the person smarter? When he was on BSN level not compared to others. Because I believe some people are intelligent by nature and others invest in such traits.
So investing in intelligence by getting exposed to articulate people
( professors ) might help one's get smarter. Not necessarily those who have Ph.D. smartest one but the person who receives education and gets better than himself without having such education was my point, but now I made it more detailed.
No, people don’t get “smarter”, they get more educated. One’s intelligence is not at all based on the degree they have. And even being “more educated” depends on the quality of their education. I know English isn’t your first language but jeebus you are messing things up and you keep doubling down on your meritless premise.
in others perspectives, indeed we will be regular nurses, but the question will be among nurses for those who had higher education since you have experience in that due to being as Diploma and got BSN after some time
Did BSN education make a difference in your patient care quality or the knowledge base?
Give an example of your "high-quality care knowledge base patient care." I keep seeing your regurgitation “use knowledge base.” What do you mean by this? Are those diploma nurses are limited to your skills or scope of practice because only nurses with BSN can do it, not them? Nurses who don't have BSN can always go up to your level or beyond. Here in the US, the LPNs can do many many what BSN nurses can do. They're using a nursing knowledge base. I’m applying it as a student nurse. That’s what I’ve learned in my curriculum. I can always access nursing AEB articles. I also read medical and pharmacological peer-reviewed articles. In addition, I read a little bit about law and ethics. These are available in public. So, your BSN for all, keep that in your country. Good luck with your ideal BSN for everyone.
I have 156 credit units that are non-nursing. I didn’t regret taking those. I always try my best to do patient care for my patients or residents. I follow protocols that keep the patients safe from infections and falls. I'm a CNA. I focus on their needs. You know how this works.
I picked the wrong words to present my aim in the initial post. It was a mistake. All nurses indeed change lives for the better regardless of the degree or position. I tried to hear others' opinions about such matters. Some said they worked with nurses with a diploma, and they are smart. Some explained with data from their study that education preparation was not a primary factor influencing the completion of the residency program rather than age as the primary factor influencing such a program.
if I may ask you what if the ADN program offered as a replacement to Diploma and having ADN with feasible tuition as if it was the same price as a diploma. do you think there will be a positive outcome of doing such a thing? or having a diploma and ADN coexist with the different program price as our current situation considering that the current situation less diploma program being offered.
I understood what you're saying. Some people have been climbing up the ladder what you're stating. Why are you bothered with those diploma nurses? Everyone should get a Ph.D. It's better than a bachelor's degree. You sound like an idealistic person. For now, they're working or thinking to acquire their BSN or above. It's a matter of their ability to do so. I'm not referring to their IQ.
Give an example of your "high-quality care knowledge base patient care." I keep seeing your regurgitation “use knowledge base.” What do you mean by this? Are those diploma nurses are limited to your skills or scope of practice because only nurses with BSN can do it, not them? Nurses who don't have BSN can always go up to your level or beyond. Here in the US, the LPNs can do many many what BSN nurses can do. They're using a nursing knowledge base. I’m applying it as a student nurse. That’s what I’ve learned in my curriculum. I can always access nursing AEB articles. I also read medical and pharmacological peer-reviewed articles. In addition, I read a little bit about law and ethics. These are available in public. So, your BSN for all, keep that in your country. Good luck with your ideal BSN for everyone.
I have 156 credit units that are non-nursing. I didn’t regret taking those. I always try my best to do patient care for my patients or residents. I follow protocols that keep the patients safe from infections and falls. I'm a CNA. I focus on their needs. You know how this works.
An example will be in" high-quality care knowledge base patient care."
would be a better understanding of the patient's condition and formulate recommendations when the attending doctor discusses the patient condition. In our college BSN program, we study anatomy and physiology more than the ADN program. Thus, students who graduate with BSN would have more knowledge in such conditions than ADN.
If you are a nurse willing to self-improvement, why not seek higher education? This is my point of having nurses interested in reading articles; the question would be, why not?
I understood what you're saying. Some people have been climbing up the ladder what you're stating. Why are you bothered with those diploma nurses? Everyone should get a Ph.D. It's better than a bachelor's degree. You sound like an idealistic person. For now, they're working or thinking to acquire their BSN or above. It's a matter of their ability to do so. I'm not referring to their IQ.
I am not bothered with diploma programs more than the accessibility of higher education programs for the intelligent nurses to utilize their intelligence in nursing care with better education preparation. Like you will find many brilliant nurses who are diploma holders but with good potential, why not encourage them to utilize such potential.
An example will be in" high-quality care knowledge base patient care."
would be a better understanding of the patient's condition and formulate recommendations when the attending doctor discusses the patient condition. In our college BSN program, we study anatomy and physiology more than the ADN program. Thus, students who graduate with BSN would have more knowledge in such conditions than ADN.
If you are a nurse willing to self-improvement, why not seek higher education? This is my point of having nurses interested in reading articles; the question would be, why not?
Interesting because my anatomy and physiology courses were credited for both ADN programs and BSN programs. I needed a few courses to be able to apply for BSN which would take me another two semesters to complete, and I was accepted in college. The nursing programs here in the US are astringent. Those sciences I took were intended for the ADN, not for the BSN. I didn't learn this until I transferred over. I discovered this little secret that people were hiding from me for so long. (I'm joking.) I asked many nurses. They had helped me speed up and know exactly where to go.
"would be a better understanding of the patient's condition and formulate recommendations when the attending doctor discusses the patient condition." This was also learned in case of studies and during clinicals in my ADN program. As a student nurse, I experienced and witnessed this. I even reported to the doctors, NPs/PAs, RTs, PT, and others during their huddle. Yes, the nurses were that terrific. My CI was fabulous! She used to work in that hospital. I shadowed nurses and physicians. They were ADN and BSN nurses. I saw this done regularly in a hospital. Is there a special room for the BSN-RNs?
As a CNA, I couldn't avoid hearing nurses talking with physicians related to patient care. It was a subacute hospital. I'm sure that the ADN-Nurses weren't barred from suggesting...for the patient.
"If you are a nurse willing to self-improvement, why not seek higher education? This is my point of having nurses interested in reading articles; the question would be, why not?" I would do it. For the education, you'll have to cover my $50,000 expenses, and I'll work less hours. I promise I'll study and pass everything.
An example will be in" high-quality care knowledge base patient care."
would be a better understanding of the patient's condition and formulate recommendations when the attending doctor discusses the patient condition. In our college BSN program, we study anatomy and physiology more than the ADN program. Thus, students who graduate with BSN would have more knowledge in such conditions than ADN.
If you are a nurse willing to self-improvement, why not seek higher education? This is my point of having nurses interested in reading articles; the question would be, why not?
?
A&P component requirements are fairly standardized between ADN and BSN programs, so I'm not sure how you've come to that conclusion.
On a related note, I find that where these ADN vs BSN discussion go off the rails is the unsupported generalizations of what each program includes or doesn't include, and the amount of variation between programs that provide the same degree.
In the minority of states that have yet to require ADN programs to adopt BSN curriculums, articulation agreements make these standardized requirements effectively unavoidable.
These days, the most common difference between an ADN and BSN degrees is about a year of general university classes. The pre-reqs and the program itself are fairly interchangeable between the two.
The difference between my BSN degree and the ADN degree of my nursing counterparts are a sailing class, geography, Greek lit, and some others. The classes were interesting, but I can't really argue that they define my nursing education as being better than that of an ADN prepared nurse.
I certainly used to hold that view. My BSN was from a program that is often one of the top ranked in the country, and has in some years been considered the top program. Yet there are ADN programs in my area where you can't even apply without already having a bachelor's degree, and the GPA cutoff is typically around 3.9, so I've learned my feeling of superiority was misplaced.
Interesting because my anatomy and physiology courses were credited for both ADN programs and BSN programs. I needed a few courses to be able to apply for BSN which would take me another two semesters to complete, and I was accepted in college. The nursing programs here in the US are astringent. Those sciences I took were intended for the ADN, not for the BSN. I didn't learn this until I transferred over. I discovered this little secret that people were hiding from me for so long. (I'm joking.) I asked many nurses. They had helped me speed up and know exactly where to go.
Our college received accreditation from ACEN for ADN and BSN programs. Interesting that the program of anatomy/physiology was credited for ADN and BSN programs and taught to Diploma. Did you experience stress handling those courses within the time of DIploma courses? Because when I asked my friends studying ADN, they were stressed about the time limit of the semester and expected them to know anatomy/physiology. Some struggled with knowing that the objectives were adjusted to be finished with a given time of the semester. They used to tell us as BSN students; we are lucky to have separate subjects and focus on each subject by itself, knowing that the required objectives of the course increased given more time.
ADN program for college two years and BSN 4 years, so for BSN, we have more comprehensive education about Anatomy/Physiology as well management/leadership and other courses.
1 hour ago, Honyebee said:
Is there a special room for the BSN-RNs?
The difference would be higher positions they get the BSN and restricted for the ADN and the comprehensive knowledge of the nurse. I think our college program led to such phenomena about higher education equal to more competent nurses, but if the courses were standardized and only adding Management/ leadership courses would result in equal patient care quality among ADN/BSN, but that is not the case in our college two extra years for BSN which get nurses more preparation in knowledge.
1 hour ago, Honyebee said:
I would do it. For the education, you'll have to cover my $50,000 expenses, and I'll work less hours. I promise I'll study and pass everything.
From what you said about having a good background as you read peer-reviewed articles, I think you can be way better than you are now as potential is there but need the utilization of such potential. Have you checked about the Tempo learning method? I saw Walden university offering BSN programs with tempo learning, and they have CCNE accredtation.
I copied the statement from their website about tempo learning brief description
"Walden's Tempo Learning® is an alternative way to earn your Walden degree. It's different from our standard course-based learning because you can work at a pace that makes sense for you and progress once you've shown you understand a subject. With Tempo Learning®, you have the flexibility of online learning, plus the ability to personalize and control the length, cost, and pacing of your program."
even the course based method, the price is not exceeding $20,000, which is way cheaper than $50,000
All the best in your studies you will pass. I was told from senior engineering," read and keep reading even if you do not notice the results as it will bloom later."
I believe that the nurses who keep reading and improve themselves better than degree-holder nurses, but that does not mean we should stop pursuing higher education programs. all that matters is willing to be better.
I certainly used to hold that view. My BSN was from a program that is often one of the top ranked in the country, and has in some years been considered the top program. Yet there are ADN programs in my area where you can't even apply without already having a bachelor's degree, and the GPA cutoff is typically around 3.9, so I've learned my feeling of superiority was misplaced.
My point of view is not BSN superior to others but rather than in the domain of hierarchy BSN climb higher than the ADN, but that does not mean all BSN better than ADN it matters to the individual level and from what I came to know from what you said the College programs also play a role in that phenomena.
1 hour ago, MunoRN said:
?
A&P component requirements are fairly standardized between ADN and BSN programs, so I'm not sure how you've come to that conclusion.
maybe the programs being provided by our college made such a difference due to having
ADN = 2.5 years ( 5 semesters ) 77 credit hours
BSN = 4 years ( 8 semesters ) 121 credit hours
so in that scenario, BSN get more preparation compared to ADN
so in that scenario, BSN get more preparation compared to ADN
Despite what you say they don’t get more nursing preparation because that is standardized by the individual state nursing boards.
With the exception of perhaps a genetic course what they get in those extra 2-3 semesters are classes in humanities and other baccalaureate electives. They do not get a more comprehensive nursing education, no matter what you think.
I’m about to blow your mind. In my diploma course (which was 3 years long BTW) all of my science, nutrition, pharmacology and development courses were taken at the local university along side the BSN students.
Despite what you say they don’t get more nursing preparation because that is standardized by the individual state nursing boards.
With the exception of perhaps a genetic course what they get in those extra 2-3 semesters are classes in humanities and other baccalaureate electives. They do not get a more comprehensive nursing education, no matter what you think.
I’m about to blow your mind. In my diploma course (which was 3 years long BTW) all of my science, nutrition, pharmacology and development courses were taken at the local university along side the BSN students.
Well, that is an interesting fact you shared about the diploma program
mind if I ask a little more?
If the diploma course is three years, how long does it take to finish BSN?
Does the diploma get intensive care preparation, leadership and management, and Informatics, or are those exclusive to the BSN?
Wuzzie
5,238 Posts
No, people don’t get “smarter”, they get more educated. One’s intelligence is not at all based on the degree they have. And even being “more educated” depends on the quality of their education. I know English isn’t your first language but jeebus you are messing things up and you keep doubling down on your meritless premise.