Diploma and Associate Degree in Nursing

Nurses General Nursing

Updated:   Published

remove-diplomas-from-nursing-programs.jpg.27484411b6d2811f71b676c9cf21231b.jpg

The new nursing standard favors ADN over diploma for recruitment by hospitals for their professionalism skill/knowledge to reach higher patient care quality.

The questions will be about the difference between these degrees in term 

  1. The requirement to get admission for such a program 
  2. Credits hours to finish / Time 
  3. Competency 

or Additional info would be appreciated.

From gathered data from multiple articles and summarized briefly 

The requirement for the Diploma admission is the completion of secondary education 

It takes three years to attend hospital classes 

Competency would be nursing assistance  

The other discussion would be about the difference and opinions about both degrees.

Should we remove diplomas from nursing programs? Why? 

My opinion would be ( Personally ) to remove diploma degree and encourage students to aim for ADN instead of diploma to be more competent and educated. The rationale to get better patient care as the average intelligence of nurses would be higher. 

Thanks in advance for your time. 

6 hours ago, morelostthanfound said:

     This is a common misconception; education=intelligence.  I’ve worked closely with surgeons over the years and have known several (one an Ivy League grad) who were so obviously incompetent, I was left wondering if they paid a bribe for their MD.  Unfortunately, the same applies to all disciplines, including nurses!

Those you worked with have high education as incompetent what about their theoretical aspect is matching the degree they hold or even their theoretical part incompetent?  

1
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in OR, Nursing Professional Development.
10 minutes ago, LasercopyNurse said:

If I may ask if someone like you intelligence. do you think seeking higher education would improve  intelligent? 

I believe perhaps there is a language barrier that has you confused between the terms “knowledge” and “intelligence”. Will there be additional knowledge gained with additional education? Absolutely, although not all of it is relevant. Intelligence is the capability of acquiring and applying knowledge; it isn’t necessarily able to be taught. 

10
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in ER.
29 minutes ago, Rose_Queen said:

I believe perhaps there is a language barrier that has you confused between the terms “knowledge” and “intelligence”. Will there be additional knowledge gained with additional education? Absolutely, although not all of it is relevant. Intelligence is the capability of acquiring and applying knowledge; it isn’t necessarily able to be taught. 

And, 'intelligent' is a verb, used to describe a noun..."She is an intelligent person.".

Intelligence is a noun. "Artificial intelligence is the wave of the future.".

1
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in New Critical care NP, Critical care, Med-surg, LTC.

"Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid." Whether the quote is correctly or incorrectly attributed to Albert Einstein, this quote, to me, sums up the flaw in assuming that education equals intelligence. For example, whether a student can perform well on a standardized test will determine many things in life- an SAT score will influence where a student can go to college, whether a nursing student will pass the NCLEX, etc. My father, for example, is particularly skilled at taking these sorts of tests, I do believe that he could pass the NCLEX just based on that ability but clearly he would not be competent as a nurse. We all know doctors that seem to barely comprehend some basic life principles, but managed to graduate from medical school.

I can't imagine that the OP hasn't seen this principle in action but just formulated a poorly worded question/comment in the original post. I also worked with a diploma nurse that can nurse rings about just about any other nurse I've ever worked with. By her own admission she would not call herself "educated", but she is extremely intelligent and competent. I would want her caring for my family member more than most nurses I know.

When I first started in acute care, my hospital chose to put degrees on name badges. So mine had my MSN listed. Despite the fact that my MSN was in leadership and management and had NO bearing on my ability to be a competent nurse, I remember two patients telling me that I must be a wonderful nurse because I had that degree.  I did tell them that if part of their stay required that I analyze the healthcare system into which they had been admitted, it might have some bearing, but other than that it did not really reflect anything about ability to provide them competent care. It's a common perception among people and I doubt we can eradicate here, but I'm not sure the OP meant the disrespect that some have inferred.  

6
Up Vote Up Vote ×
17 minutes ago, JBMmom said:

"Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid." Whether the quote is correctly or incorrectly attributed to Albert Einstein, this quote, to me, sums up the flaw in assuming that education equals intelligence. For example, whether a student can perform well on a standardized test will determine many things in life- an SAT score will influence where a student can go to college, whether a nursing student will pass the NCLEX, etc. My father, for example, is particularly skilled at taking these sorts of tests, I do believe that he could pass the NCLEX just based on that ability but clearly he would not be competent as a nurse. We all know doctors that seem to barely comprehend some basic life principles, but managed to graduate from medical school.

I can't imagine that the OP hasn't seen this principle in action but just formulated a poorly worded question/comment in the original post. I also worked with a diploma nurse that can nurse rings about just about any other nurse I've ever worked with. By her own admission she would not call herself "educated", but she is extremely intelligent and competent. I would want her caring for my family member more than most nurses I know.

When I first started in acute care, my hospital chose to put degrees on name badges. So mine had my MSN listed. Despite the fact that my MSN was in leadership and management and had NO bearing on my ability to be a competent nurse, I remember two patients telling me that I must be a wonderful nurse because I had that degree.  I did tell them that if part of their stay required that I analyze the healthcare system into which they had been admitted, it might have some bearing, but other than that it did not really reflect anything about ability to provide them competent care. It's a common perception among people and I doubt we can eradicate here, but I'm not sure the OP meant the disrespect that some have inferred.  

Appreciate your time to share your experience 

to answer the last part. Excuse my inappropriate words. I did not intend to disrespect others or anything in that regard.

only to read others' opinions on such a topic like your respected comment. 

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
On 12/19/2021 at 4:57 AM, LasercopyNurse said:

https://cnicollege.edu/page/info/nursing-diploma/

http://sksmcnursing.in/nursing-diploma-courses-to-be-phased-out-by-2022/

Mahaffey, E. (May 31, 2002). "The Relevance of Associate Degree Nursing Education: Past, Present, Future." Online Journal of Issues in Nursing. Vol. 7 No. 2, Morificecript 2.

In the book titled ( Professional Issues in Nursing ) written by carol j. Huston 

published by Lippincott Williams & Wilkins 

in section Orginins of Differentiated Nursing Practice  

The growth in chronic diseases and increased understanding of hospitalized patients demanded a higher level of nursing care. an intermediate level  nurse was needed to relieve professional nurses of the less demanding services in hospital settings and provide a higher level of care than practical

( vocational ) quoting Montag 

The only information you've provided that is valid so far is your personal opinion.  Language barrier or not, none of the links you provided even discuss "ADN vs diploma".  I'm wondering what sparked your interest in such an obscure comparison, since your opinion and statements aren't associated with any actual supporting research on your part.

Quote

I read a few articles saying the favor goes to the ADN as the new standard. 

Link #1 leads to a school of nursing site and merely describes the different routes to a nursing career, and qualifies the student to take the NCLEX-RN in the US, which public health officials have determined qualify someone as intelligent enough to begin their career as a Registered Nurse, regardless of degree path.

Link #2 advises that diploma nurses will be phased out in Tamil Nadu, India by 2022.  Completely irrelevant to this discussion.

You didn't include links to the last two items, so I looked up #3, which is a discussion of the Associate Degree published in the journal of the ANA, whose goal has been to have an all BSN nursing workforce for decades.  It contains no mention of ADN as a standard vs diploma nursing.

The Relevance of Associate Degree Nursing Education: Past, Present, Future

Item #4 is a random snippet from a textbook that doesn't contain anything about ADN vs diploma nurses, and most likely refers to the "intermediate level nurse" vs "professional nurse" (BSN), again discussing BSN as the desired standard.

Quote

My opinion would be ( Personally ) to remove diploma degree and encourage students to aim for ADN instead of diploma to be more competent and educated. 

I'm not insulted by your opinion, because everyone has one.  I am insulted that you attempted to provide evidence for your opinion with sources that say no such thing.

1
Up Vote Up Vote ×
10 hours ago, nursel56 said:

The only information you've provided that is valid so far is your personal opinion.  Language barrier or not, none of the links you provided even discuss "ADN vs diploma".  I'm wondering what sparked your interest in such an obscure comparison, since your opinion and statements aren't associated with any actual supporting research on your part.

Link #1 leads to a school of nursing site and merely describes the different routes to a nursing career, and qualifies the student to take the NCLEX-RN in the US, which public health officials have determined qualify someone as intelligent enough to begin their career as a Registered Nurse, regardless of degree path.

Link #2 advises that diploma nurses will be phased out in Tamil Nadu, India by 2022.  Completely irrelevant to this discussion.

You didn't include links to the last two items, so I looked up #3, which is a discussion of the Associate Degree published in the journal of the ANA, whose goal has been to have an all BSN nursing workforce for decades.  It contains no mention of ADN as a standard vs diploma nursing.

The Relevance of Associate Degree Nursing Education: Past, Present, Future

Item #4 is a random snippet from a textbook that doesn't contain anything about ADN vs diploma nurses, and most likely refers to the "intermediate level nurse" vs "professional nurse" (BSN), again discussing BSN as the desired standard.

I'm not insulted by your opinion, because everyone has one.  I am insulted that you attempted to provide evidence for your opinion with sources that say no such thing.

I appreciate your time in responding to my comment.

Well, Indeed it seems I got the articles wrong.

1
Up Vote Up Vote ×
2 hours ago, LasercopyNurse said:

Well, Indeed it seems I got the articles wrong.

As well as your premise as I told you pages back.

1
Up Vote Up Vote ×
On 12/18/2021 at 10:23 PM, Wuzzie said:

Are we seriously going to entertain this? The topic is divisive, without any value and certain to devolve into a snarky free for all. 

Well put.

1
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in NICU.

Most of diploma programs are closing,so there is nothing to remove. The intelligence factor you mention doesnt even deserve an answer it is so ridiculous.As for nursing competence,I have worked with some fantastic diploma nurses.(Just because they did not have the opportunity )does not make them terrible nurses.Leave the system alone,the more they torque it up the bigger mess they make.

2
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in being a Credible Source.
On 12/18/2021 at 11:54 AM, LasercopyNurse said:

remove-diplomas-from-nursing-programs.jpg.27484411b6d2811f71b676c9cf21231b.jpg

The new nursing standard favors ADN over diploma for recruitment by hospitals for their professionalism skill/knowledge to reach higher patient care quality.

The questions will be about the difference between these degrees in term 

  1. The requirement to get admission for such a program 
  2. Credits hours to finish / Time 
  3. Competency 

or Additional info would be appreciated.

From gathered data from multiple articles and summarized briefly 

The requirement for the Diploma admission is the completion of secondary education 

It takes three years to attend hospital classes 

Competency would be nursing assistance  

The other discussion would be about the difference and opinions about both degrees.

Should we remove diplomas from nursing programs? Why? 

My opinion would be ( Personally ) to remove diploma degree and encourage students to aim for ADN instead of diploma to be more competent and educated. The rationale to get better patient care as the average intelligence of nurses would be higher. 

Thanks in advance for your time. 

"encourage students to aim for ADN instead of diploma to be more competent and educated. The rationale to get better patient care as the average intelligence of nurses would be higher. "

Absurd... One of my favorite colleagues just retired and he was a diploma nurse... far better prepped at graduation than was I and simply one of the smartest, finest nurses ever to bear the title.

4
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in school nurse.
57 minutes ago, Music in My Heart said:

 

Absurd... One of my favorite colleagues just retired and he was a diploma nurse... far better prepped at graduation than was I and simply one of the smartest, finest nurses ever to bear the title.

Yes!! If we really wanted the best nursing programs, they'd all be diploma programs with a segue (after passing the boards) into a college for a year or two to complete a BSN.

3
Up Vote Up Vote ×
+ Add a Comment