Different pay and responsibility for 2 year RN's VS 4 year RN's

[kasey14546]

I'm completing an RN to BSN program in 2 months. I have learned so much in the BSN program I wish I had taken it sooner. The additional education has taught me skills I never learned in trainings, or by experience.

I think that just as there is a difference in the tasks an RN and LPN can preform, there should also be a difference in what a two year RN can do, in comparison to a RN with a BSN. The 2 year RN should not be in leadeership or management positions since they have not been trained in accredeited colleges for this skill. The BSN has. I'm sure the 2 yers RN's will disagree with me, and 2 years ago I would have disagreed also. However, after being able to compare the two from personal experience, I feel the BSN is more educated for leadership and management. The BSN nurse should be paid more, and should be the starting educational level for these positions.

Most professions have at least a 4 year degree. Nurses need to improve their educational standing to be equal with other professional fields.

[fab4fan]

I don't know...she still gets into the mix in the War/Terrorism forum:D

[EmeraldNYL, BSN, RN]

Thanks Susy... no I didn't mean anything snide or rude by my comments, I was just simply trying to debate an issue that affects nursing. I totally agree with what Stargazer said. I'm very opinionated (as are many other people on this BB) and I love to have a good debate. What I don't like however, are personal attacks or rudeness. So can we all just try to get along, and debate issues with mutual respect without cutting each other down? Peace anyone?? (extending hand......) :)

[l.rae]

FAb4...you are right.....much less stressful now.......only wish l had this feature available in the ER.......LOL....:rotfl:

[Q.]

Originally posted by fab4fan

I don't know...she still gets into the mix in the War/Terrorism forum:D

Hey, I've got a reputation to uphold!

[essarge]

Whew! I have taken the time to read almost all of the posts on this discussion and like a few said ... this is an old argument!

However, the one thing I DID NOT SEE, was involvement in the state nursing associations to help change the face of nursing. So, I will put this question out for discussion.

How many of you are ACTIVELY participating in your state/national nursing organizations to develop changes? By this I mean not just paying dues.

[nursecheryl]

Good question essarge. Self regulation and professional regulation are part of the nursing practice. We are all accountable for this as professionals. If we choose not to get involved then who are we to complain.

[essarge]

I totally agree nursecheryl. I feel that since we are such a vast population, we have more power than some realize. By writing letters to congress, being active in your state/national association, letting your institution know what is acceptable and not acceptable and perservering for changes this argument will only stay among the profession and not commit changes!

[SmilingBluEyes]

Originally posted by Susy K

I don't think Nikki was referring to these courses. These aren't the "useless humanities courses" that some of you are bashing. She's referring to art, art history, literature, foreign language (college level - not high school), poli sci, etc - not nursing prereqs.

I took all that too; it was a requirement for MY ADN anyhow. THE ONLY THINGS I LACK FOR A BSN are NOT THOSE liberal arts classes that make us so much broader-minded. THEY ARE: STATS, Nursing Management courses and Community Health courses, as well as senior seminar/studies. I HAVE ALL THAT ALREADY ( I Took college-level French and Spanish, History, Psych, Dev psych, speech courses as well as ethics.......and so did many of the rest of us ADN grads).

It is a fact my Associates' degree directly transfers into a BSN degree, all being accepted, just having to add to my nursing class repertoire, which I understand. I said before, my ADN program, and I suspect many others, could be "tweaked" a bit and made a BSN if the college/university chose to make that investment. It is at the heart of my discontent that I could not access a BSN program the first time around I went to school. Very frustrating! So, Many BSN students/ grads just don't understand, associate degree folks study all the same base courses that bachelors folks do.......so that argument is baseless.

I still say, (and agree here), the more education, formal and otherwise, the better, but don't base the "BSN is better" argument on a few liberal arts courses, cause it just is not true.

[feb9822]

Kasey, I was very glad to find your message. You and I are in the same RN to BSN program, and share an instructor who told me about your post. I have been a nurses aide for 13 years, an RN with an AD for 15 years, and am currently completing my BS with a major in nursing. All of the infighting that you see in response to your post is a very significant symptom of what is wrong with nursing. There is no one entry level, and no one who has an AD wants to be told they are not as good a nurse as those with a BSN. But is that really why we should have a bachelor's as our one entry level? Of course not. The real reason for the higher education is to provide our patients with the best we can. I have been in this program for 6 months, and it has been a real eye-opener. My AD provided very well for me as a staff nurse as long as I was task oriented and wanted to come to work, perform my duties and go home and read up on the newest way to insert a foley catheter. Fortunately I have discovered that I needed more than that. The insight and knowledge I have acquired in my BS program made me realize how I could have done my job better all this time. This should not be a competition to see who's the "best"nurse........it should be I need to be the best I can be at what I do!!!! Wouldn't that make ALL of us better nurses????? Is not patient care our ultimate goal? It's time for nursing to start supporting each other in the need for higher education. Nursing is like a bucket of crabs, you don't need to put a cover on it because if one tries to go higher, the others pull that one back down. Let's try being the wind under each others wings instead of crabs!

[PennyLane, RN]

Originally posted by EmeraldNYL

This is exactly why I made the comment that BSN nurses should get paid more. What is the incentive for a nurse to advance his or her education if they aren't going to be paid more for it? So no, I didn't say that to be arrogant or snide, but just because it makes sense.

Emerald, I agree with you. I was thinking about this thread last night on my way home from class. As an example from another profession, my sister is a special ed teacher. She has her Bachelor's in Special Ed, a master's in special ed, and just recently got a master's in social work. She has worked in special ed ever since graduation from college in the 80s. Her first job after getting her second master's (in social work, not a directly related field, but is somewhat applicable) offered her MUCH more money than she was earning before. Why? Because her pay reflects her education.

If you look at ads for computer programmers, IT program managers, etc, most will designate what degree they want the person to have. Usually you get paid more off the bat if you have a higher degree. Do you think those art and language classes taken for a bachelor's apply to a computer job? No, but they pay more because the person has had more education.

[New CCU RN]

Feb and Mel...... both of these are great posts!

[mattsmom81]

If the higher education proponents in the ANA/NLN, nursing and academia were REALLY concerned about nurses getting that #xx degree to 'better our patients', I would think they would make it a tad less tedious/expensive for ADN's and diplomas to get the dang BSN.

As it stands, we have to jump through their expensive hoops, redo almost ALL classwork and coursework, with ridiculously minimal consideration for our vast experience and status in the nursing community. What...I have to retake my critical care work even though I'm a CCRN? I have to redo ALL my sciences, Englishes, government, math...because I took them through a non BSN nursing school?? So...most of it won't 'count'? Even tho I took it at a local university?? The game playing to get our $$$ never ends, as those of us who have attempted to go back for our degrees have found out.

Sorry....academia has it's hand out for your/our money... so don't try and convince me of it's great humanitarian effort.

Of course your BSN program tells you you will be a superior nurse...what else could they say to justify the big bucks you pay them? They operate off LSE and their message is heard by those who need to hear it....students with LSE.

They pull you in with this line...but do not be fooled....it is quite self serving, as well as detrimental to the nursing profession in it's divisiveness of our ranks. Elitism never brings people together. Follow the $$$ and you will see the real purposes behind the actions and words.