Different pay and responsibility for 2 year RN's VS 4 year RN's

[kasey14546]

I'm completing an RN to BSN program in 2 months. I have learned so much in the BSN program I wish I had taken it sooner. The additional education has taught me skills I never learned in trainings, or by experience.

I think that just as there is a difference in the tasks an RN and LPN can preform, there should also be a difference in what a two year RN can do, in comparison to a RN with a BSN. The 2 year RN should not be in leadeership or management positions since they have not been trained in accredeited colleges for this skill. The BSN has. I'm sure the 2 yers RN's will disagree with me, and 2 years ago I would have disagreed also. However, after being able to compare the two from personal experience, I feel the BSN is more educated for leadership and management. The BSN nurse should be paid more, and should be the starting educational level for these positions.

Most professions have at least a 4 year degree. Nurses need to improve their educational standing to be equal with other professional fields.

[nursecheryl]

The more education a nurse has the better off she will be. As for experience we all end up getting it on the floor. As for prereq's and other classes besides the nursing classes I received as an ADN I had to have chemistry, cell biology, microbiology, Anatomy and PHysiology(3 total classes plus the corresponding labs) , 1 Algebra, Psychiatry, adult/child and abnormal. 4 total classes. Sociology. Speech, 3 phys ed classes, 2 arts classes besides the nursing arts. 3 English classes. I realize someone who gets their BSN has more than this, but please stop acting like we in ADN programs and Diploma programs do not get everything we need to be very good at what we do. Not only did we have to prove ourselves with the above mentioned classes but when we worked clinicals we had to do care maps, show down to cell level all disease processes of this patient and cell level for all meds. We had one night to prepare this map and care plan. We went to the floor at 2pm and by next morning 7am were expected to be ready with care plans/care maps in hand in perfect order. We also had to answer questions by our instructors about medications, procedures, etc... down to cell level about our particular pateints we were to have that day. I'm not sure what happens in diploma programs but I'm sure it isn't too much different. I know that where I live when you graduate from a diploma program you end up with an ADN so I'm not sure why they still call it this, but that is still what they call it. I'm a case manager for a home care agency and wouldn't do it if I didn't feel qualified. Not to mention, the place i work for wouldn't allow me to do it.

[OzNurse69]

I know the system is a little different over here, but I though about upgrading to my degree -- looked into curriculums, etc., and could not find one course that only included post-grad subjects -- for every single one I would have had to attend classes like sociology etc. with first year students.

No offence to any first year students, but what is the point of paying for tuition for a course like this?? Other than the fact that I would be entitled to put "BN" after my name, of what use would it be??

Especially since on further enquiry, I would be eligible for special entry into a grad dip or masters program based on my experience, even without my degree.

Just as an aside, I had a patient say to me the other day, "You really are good at what you do, aren't you? The standard of nursing has really improved since you nurses all started going to university. You have so many more skills than you used to!" She got dreadfully embarrased when I pointed out to her that I and quite a few others on the ward "only" had hospital certificates, & the nurse she was complaining about the week before actually had her masters!!! She was a cow, so it gave me great delight to set her straight!

[MishlB]

Originally posted by nursecheryl

The more education a nurse has the better off she will be. As for experience we all end up getting it on the floor. As for prereq's and other classes besides the nursing classes I received as an ADN I had to have chemistry, cell biology, microbiology, Anatomy and PHysiology(3 total classes plus the corresponding labs) , 1 Algebra, Psychiatry, adult/child and abnormal. 4 total classes. Sociology. Speech, 3 phys ed classes, 2 arts classes besides the nursing arts. 3 English classes. I realize someone who gets their BSN has more than this, but please stop acting like we in ADN programs and Diploma programs do not get everything we need to be very good at what we do. Not only did we have to prove ourselves with the above mentioned classes but when we worked clinicals we had to do care maps, show down to cell level all disease processes of this patient and cell level for all meds. We had one night to prepare this map and care plan. We went to the floor at 2pm and by next morning 7am were expected to be ready with care plans/care maps in hand in perfect order. We also had to answer questions by our instructors about medications, procedures, etc... down to cell level about our particular pateints we were to have that day. I'm not sure what happens in diploma programs but I'm sure it isn't too much different. I know that where I live when you graduate from a diploma program you end up with an ADN so I'm not sure why they still call it this, but that is still what they call it. I'm a case manager for a home care agency and wouldn't do it if I didn't feel qualified. Not to mention, the place i work for wouldn't allow me to do it.

nuff said...

[fab4fan]

Originally posted by EmeraldNYL

SuzyK, the "arrogant" person fab4fan was referring to was me, because in my first post I said something along the lines of "BSN nurses should be paid more because they have more skills". Everyone subsequently jumped on me and proceed to personally attack me for saying that, even though I have tried to explain WHY I said that over and over (for example, I made a comment about how I had to take a foreign language-- I wasn't necessarily referring to technical aspects of bedside nursing skills). I NEVER said that I was better than anyone for having a BSN or that ADNs aren't good nurse.

Emerald: Please do not presume to read my mind...you didn't appreciate some of the things I said to you, and I don't appreciate this. BTW, I'm a diploma nurse, not an ADN, just to clarify...we still exist.

Cease fire.

[l.rae]

Originally posted by EmeraldNYL

in my first post I said something along the lines of "BSN nurses should be paid more because they have more skills".

Originally posted by EmeraldNYL

. I don't think this is right considering the BSN has more education, and therefore more skills.

[SmilingBluEyes]

the more things change, the more they remain the same. It never ends......Like someone else said, let's unite and quit squabbling over education level entry requirements. I agree also that the subject of who is educated where and how NEVER comes up either place I work and we don't ask. We don't care. I say with the state of nursing today, We have bigger fish to fry, friends.

[Q.]

Ah Nikki,

Birth by fire, I see.

You know, my very first post to Allnurses was along the lines of questioning why someone would want to be an LPN instead of an RN. In my neck of the woods, I saw LPNs being eliminated and "RNs only" for critical care, L&D, etc. Needless to say, I became pretty popular pretty quick:

Susy's Birth by Fire

'Twas a nasty thread, but towards the end, we all realized that I didn't mean anything nasty and mostly people had baggage no doubt from prior discussions and/or put-downs from ignorant people.

My point? Well, I knew what you meant when you said BSNs have better skills. You didn't mean it literally, as that kind of language that was miscontrued is probably evident in the thread above that I posted.

And yes, you are entitled to an opinion as a student. You are the future of nursing. I welcome your ideas.

So let's eveyone take a breath here and re-read what Stargazer posted and I repeated: experience combined with formal education is really the best teacher. Everyone agrees with that.

[Lausana]

Susy: Allnurses Phoenix

[bossynurse]

Originally posted by EmeraldNYL

I agree, gpip--this is an excellent point. This is what I meant when I stated that BSN prepared nurses have more "skills". I did not just mean technical skills or ability. And lets not forget that nursing is a big wide world, and encompasses so much more than just bedside nursing. I was referring to the bigger picture, including administration, case management, etc... It upsets me when I hear people say that liberal arts classes or prereqs are "junk" or pointless. Perhaps these classes won't help you to drop an NG tube better or insert an IV, but they will make you a more well-rounded person. As an example, I had to take a foreign language-- someday I may get to use my language skills at the bedside if I have a patient that speaks a different language.

Um emerald, I think most of us took a foreign language in high school. I have my ADN and I still had to take microbiology, anatomy and physiology, sociology, psych, child and adole. development, chemistry, 2 semesters of English, humanities, algebra etc etc etc. Should the new BSN grads that I precept get paid more than me - I think not!

[Stargazer]

Thank goodness Susy learned from that experience to mellow out and avoid all that pesky controversy. :rotfl:

[Q.]

I have my ADN and I still had to take microbiology, anatomy and physiology, sociology, psych, child and adole. development, chemistry, 2 semesters of English, humanities, algebra etc etc etc

I don't think Nikki was referring to these courses. These aren't the "useless humanities courses" that some of you are bashing. She's referring to art, art history, literature, foreign language (college level - not high school), poli sci, etc - not nursing prereqs.

Please - can we leave her alone?

[Q.]

Originally posted by Stargazer

Thank goodness Susy learned from that experience to mellow out and avoid all that pesky controversy. :rotfl:

:roll