Different pay and responsibility for 2 year RN's VS 4 year RN's

essarge · Feb 12, 2003

mattsmom,

You bring up some very valid points and you are absolutely right! Why can't you get credit for things that you already have. One solution might be an exam (not unlike the NLN or others) that tests the knowledge base the nurse already has. It should be geared toward nursing and used across the board to give credit where credit is due. This would accomplish nurses furthering their education, helping the nursing shortage, and giving the nurse that has been in the field practicing a chance to show her/his knowledge. I feel that it should be scored and calculated, not by the schools but by a separate committee so that all scoring is uniform.

NurseDennie, BSN, RN · Feb 12, 2003

Originally posted by kasey14546
I'm completing an RN to BSN program in 2 months. (snippity snip) I feel the BSN is more educated for leadership and management. The BSN nurse should be paid more, and should be the starting educational level for these positions.
Most professions have at least a 4 year degree. Nurses need to improve their educational standing to be equal with other professional fields.

BWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

I just found this thread and it's already umpty-seven pages long. Has anybody said anything new? Is it worth reading all the way through?

:chuckle :roll :chuckle

Love

Dennie (still chortling)

PennyLane, RN · Feb 12, 2003

Originally posted by mattsmom81
If the higher education proponents in the ANA/NLN, nursing and academia were REALLY concerned about nurses getting that #xx degree to 'better our patients', I would think they would make it a tad less tedious/expensive for ADN's and diplomas to get the dang BSN.

As it stands, we have to jump through their expensive hoops, redo almost ALL classwork and coursework, with ridiculously minimal consideration for our vast experience and status in the nursing community. What...I have to retake my critical care work even though I'm a CCRN? I have to redo ALL my sciences, Englishes, government, math...because I took them through a non BSN nursing school?? So...most of it won't 'count'? Even tho I took it at a local university?? The game playing to get our $$$ never ends, as those of us who have attempted to go back for our degrees have found out.

Sorry....academia has it's hand out for your/our money... so don't try and convince me of it's great humanitarian effort.

Of course your BSN program tells you you will be a superior nurse...what else could they say to justify the big bucks you pay them? They operate off LSE and their message is heard by those who need to hear it....students with LSE.

They pull you in with this line...but do not be fooled....it is quite self serving, as well as detrimental to the nursing profession in it's divisiveness of our ranks. Elitism never brings people together. Follow the $$$ and you will see the real purposes behind the actions and words.

I;m sorry to hear the BSN programs in your area are so demanding. Here you can have taken the classes at any Maryland 2- or 4-year college. The tuition at UMD for in-state students is $2,500/semester. Of course private colleges are much more expensive, unfortunately.

But I hardly see how offering a bachelor's degree in nursing is "detrimental to the nursing profession". I think it's the negative attitude NURSES have toward other nurses (whether it be non-BSN nurses resenting BSN nurses, or the other way around) that's detrimental to the nursing profession. I've picked up a LOT of this on this thread, and others on this BB.

EmeraldNYL, BSN, RN · Feb 12, 2003

Originally posted by feb9822
Nursing is like a bucket of crabs, you don't need to put a cover on it because if one tries to go higher, the others pull that one back down. Let's try being the wind under each others wings instead of crabs!

This is such a good post. Sometimes it seems that nurses can't agree on anything. How did the nursing culture get to be like that? Why can't we support each other, our accomplishments, and our goals? Does anyone who has been in nursing for awhile have any insight on why the culture of nursing is like this? I am still a student, so this is difficult for me to understand. Other professions, for example physicians, all totally back each other up-- but it seems like nurses really don't.

Stargazer · Feb 12, 2003

I think it's a variant of "kick the dog" syndrome--nurses get shat upon by patients, docs, administrators--and instead of channeling our anger somewhere productive, we unleash it on those who who (A) are handy and (B) will take it--fellow nurses.

I also think it's symptomatic of the passive aggression that seems so unfortunately prevalent in our profession.

nursecheryl · Feb 12, 2003

Nikki, You keep asking, "Why can't we just support each other." Can't you see that YOU are being unsupportive and a trouble maker as well. You think we are all jealous of your BSN, not. You haven't even graduated from nursing school, haven't taken the boards and you already have your nose in the air. And, you have your picture on there for everyone to see, so proud of you oppinion. What happens when someone who is about to train you on the floor see's you and makes copies of what is on these boards with your attitude about the majority of nurses, LPN's, ADN and Diploma nurses, and passes it around. If the nurses you work with don't support you, you are not going to make it. P.S. I'm not threatening you. I would not do this.

wv_nurse 2003 · Feb 12, 2003

Something I have to say I find facinating--the additional requirements of a BSN are never fully appreciated by the nurse who's first degree is her bachelors. I felt inadequate as a new grad coming from a BS program--inferior to the AD and diploma grads--they seemed to know so much more than me!! I didn't appreciate the "reasons" for the extra course work, in management, research, etc--it just seemed like an abstract waste of my time--that could have better been spent in "hands on" learning.

I see reading these posts--that those who "go back" for their Bachelors seem to have a better acknowledgment of the importance of this additional education, and therefore value it more. Please dont think I don't value my education--that's not what I am saying. I guess I just feel like learning about how to be a good nurse, and actually becoming a good nurse are two completely different things. We all learn differently, we all came into the profession with vastly different backgrounds--some right out of high school, some older; some with diverse life-experience, some "green" in the ways of the world.

I think the suggestion to some how make the transition from diploma or ADN to BSN easier is a great starting point--if our collective goal is to someday make the BSN the entry level degree. I think credit should be given for years of experience for the diploma and the ADN graduate.

So where do we start? I think active participation in your state nursing associations is a great start. There seems to be an outstanding voice present right on this board--a great place for brainstorming to begin. Its up to all of us to take it from there

Thanks to all of you for wonderful insights, opinions, and comments!

mattsmom81 · Feb 12, 2003

Originally posted by Mel D
I;m sorry to hear the BSN programs in your area are so demanding. Here you can have taken the classes at any Maryland 2- or 4-year college. The tuition at UMD for in-state students is $2,500/semester. Of course private colleges are much more expensive, unfortunately.

But I hardly see how offering a bachelor's degree in nursing is "detrimental to the nursing profession". I think it's the negative attitude NURSES have toward other nurses (whether it be non-BSN nurses resenting BSN nurses, or the other way around) that's detrimental to the nursing profession. I've picked up a LOT of this on this thread, and others on this BB.

You seem to have totally missed my point. The attitude conveyed by academia that the BSN is 'superior' is the problem. The students who propogate this 'superior attitude' ARE being detrimental to our profession...by promoting divisiveness when we need to come together, IMHO.

I see no reason I should have to prove myself again and again by taking exams or retaking college courses...all for huge fees of course. I run into the same obstacles every RN to BSN program I've researched.

I've been a nurse for many many years and am very confident I know what I'm doing... but I refuse to justify (for a fee) my quite extensive knowledge base to ridiculous BSN proponents any longer, thus I will stay a 'lowly but very successful Diploma RN', thankyouverymuch.

And you're right of course Dennie...this is just SSDD. What's the point of trying to explain...some just won't get it.

Stargazer · Feb 12, 2003

Good point, wv_nurse. I think the older students in my nursing class, who were LPNs or CNAs, working full-time and with families, studied harder and got better grades for the most part than "traditional" students. I learned a lot, but didn't necessarily always enjoy my classes, and in retrospect I wish I'd read and studied more for comprehension than just to get through a test. I definitely value my education more in retrospect than I did at the time.

Originally posted by nursecheryl
Nikki, You keep asking, "Why can't we just support each other." Can't you see that YOU are being unsupportive and a trouble maker as well. You think we are all jealous of your BSN, not. You haven't even graduated from nursing school, haven't taken the boards and you already have your nose in the air. And, you have your picture on there for everyone to see, so proud of you oppinion. Get use to the idea, we are all nurses and you aren't going to change it. Na Na Na na na. I know everyone, that wasn't professional, but she has just got me sooooo mad with her attitude.

At this late date, when everyone else on this thread has more or less mellowed out and come to some kind of understanding, I can't understand what prompted this post or what it's supposed to accomplish except get everyone angry again. Yes, it was unprofessional. This is a completely unwarranted personal attack.

Q. · Feb 12, 2003

Here, here Stargazer. Bravo, bravo.

Q. · Feb 12, 2003

I still say, (and agree here), the more education, formal and otherwise, the better, but don't base the "BSN is better" argument on a few liberal arts courses, cause it just is not true.

Actually, Deb that wasn't the point. The point was that alot of people think the courses you just mentioned, and took yourself in your ADN program are useless. They aren't. Maybe they were to you, or others, and if so that's a shame.

I've always said there is more to life out there than nursing and being a nurse. There is life out there folks, which includes things like a liberal education. And short of time travel, the only way to learn about the Spanish War or literature is to take a course.

That is all I am trying to say.

Stargazer · Feb 12, 2003

I'd prefer time travel, actually. Is that an option? Nobody ever told me that was an option!