Covid Vaccine

Updated:   Published

I’m sure you all know about the COVID vaccine and the plan to first vaccinate healthcare workers. How does everyone feel about this vaccine ? I personally do not want it..Where are the long term studies. IDK it’s worrisome to me that it will prob be mandated for us 

1 hour ago, MunoRN said:

Peer-reviewed publication of the studies along with independent confirmation of results is part of the process, the trials are also overseen by independent oversight groups.

No peer-reviewed publications exist on the covid vaccines.

Mandating vaccination for those who chose to work as nurses isn't 'forcing' it on anyone.  I don't think it's unreasonable to expect nurses as part of their obligation to take basic steps to avoid harm to patients.  Many, if not most of the patients in the hospital are at significantly higher risk of mortality and morbidity from Covid, why should nurses who choose to not decrease their risk of transmitting Covid to those patient be allowed to work there?

Mandating is equivalent to forcing. Definitions:

Mandate: an official order or commission to do something.

Force: make (someone) do something against their will

If someone doesn't want to do something and you order them to do it, that's the same thing. Y'all playing semantics with people's lives. I'm at risk by those who refuse to wear a mask in public but I don't see you and the "well you're a nurse you should get vaccinated" crowd out in the streets in their faces with your holier than thou, petty shaming tactics.

What you think is unreasonable is irrelevant. People don't want to do it so you or no one else should determine they should or hold their livelihood hostage because you think that's appropriate. Nurses are still people who have lives outside of the hospital. Nursing is a profession, not a mandatory way of living. The fact you conflate the two is the problem. People don't want to wear masks which is noninvasive but you feel like it's fine to mandate invasive vaccines without solid foundations of the scientific process and proven effects, especially long term? That in and of itself is the problem. YOU can lay down and do what you will with your body but what I choose to do with mine is my choice and you and no one else should mandate that. Being a nurse by profession does NOT override the right of personal freedoms. That is that! Nothing you say will make it alright and I'm not even entertaining this nonsense anymore.

?

3
Up Vote Up Vote ×
On 12/1/2020 at 11:40 AM, londonflo said:

That's why this is still only a theory. If you don't want the vaccine just say that. Don't diss it because you believe that you have the real prevention route with healthy diet, strict exercise patterns. and everything else that avoids being sick that will protect you. Magical thinking only works in fairy tales. 

That's just it though. People say they don't want it then you have the "but you're a nurse you should do blah blah" crowd trying to basically shame those who don't want it. It's not mandatory yet and people want more information to make informed decisions. Nothing wrong with informed decisions. Everyone else seems to have rights except nurses according to some in this thread. THAT is the problem I'm having. Since when is reserving your choice and waiting for more information to make an informed decision a problem? When it comes to a few in this thread. I'm no anti-vaxxer but I have reservations and I will not concede until my questions are answered and I have more information. The shame and pile on tactics by some in this thread are ridiculous. SMH

4
Up Vote Up Vote ×
1 hour ago, Jack Peace said:

Those people are also at a higher risk of falling, higher risk of influenza, higher risk of resp and cardiac failure, higher risk of cardiac arrest, higher risk of common cold, higher risk of bacterial pneumonia. Anyone who is immunocompromised in any way whether that is due to comorbidities, nutrition, obesity, old age is going to be at a "higher risk" of developing many different ailments. You have to accept the fact that this vaccine is not going to widely accepted. Deal with it. 

Isn't it amazing how we're the ones deemed to be "berating" this vax yet we're basically the ones being berated and under the microscope for not going along with the crowd? LMAO

2
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.

Berated?

I think people get scolded by their professional peers in this forum for a variety of reasons.  Most often it's for sharing or promoting thinking which is not widely accepted as sound science or standard health practice.  A nurse who prefers to refuse the covid vaccine for himself is quite a different matter than a nurse who would avoid recommending the vaccine to patients...because of his personal views. 

3
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in oncology.
On 11/29/2020 at 3:29 AM, NurseBlaq said:

Mandated is forced especially if people are at risk of losing their income in a depression for not getting a vax they don't feel comfortable receiving. They're forced to comply or lose their jobs.

What about Employers who expect a 'drug-free' workplace and enforce mandatory drug testing.  Are you saying a nurse shouldn't have to participate if they are forced to take a drug test upon hire and periodically at the employer's request? 

On 11/29/2020 at 3:29 AM, NurseBlaq said:

 What if they're in a saturated or rural area?

Then move or get a non-hospital job like working for an insurance company remotely. Frankly the world does NOT owe you (or anyother RN who puts their wants/needs/desires over the safety of patient) a job just because you passed  the NCLEX.

2
Up Vote Up Vote ×
15 hours ago, londonflo said:

What about Employers who expect a 'drug-free' workplace and enforce mandatory drug testing.  Are you saying a nurse shouldn't have to participate if they are forced to take a drug test upon hire and periodically at the employer's request? 

You're comparing an unproved, non peer-reviewed vaccine to the likes of heroin, alcohol, crack cocaine, smoking, etc? That's bum logic and not worthy of a real debate. Shows your level of thinking.

Then move or get a non-hospital job like working for an insurance company remotely. Frankly the world does NOT owe you (or anyother RN who puts their wants/needs/desires over the safety of patient) a job just because you passed  the NCLEX.

 

Up Vote Up Vote ×
2 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Berated?

I think people get scolded by their professional peers in this forum for a variety of reasons.  Most often it's for sharing or promoting thinking which is not widely accepted as sound science or standard health practice.  A nurse who prefers to refuse the covid vaccine for himself is quite a different matter than a nurse who would avoid recommending the vaccine to patients...because of his personal views. 

I said berated because someone else kept using that word for those of us who disagree with this vaccine. If we don't want it, we don't want it. I agree with the rest. I won't take the vax but won't tell patients who do want it to not get it. That's their choice as it is also mine to not get it.

4
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Critical care, tele, Medical-Surgical.
Quote

2 hours ago NurseBlaq said:

No peer-reviewed publications exist on the covid vaccines.

Quote

An mRNA Vaccine against SARS-CoV-2 — Preliminary Report (July 2020)

…   The mRNA-1273 vaccine induced anti–SARS-CoV-2 immune responses in all participants, and no trial-limiting safety concerns were identified. These findings support further development of this vaccine...

https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa2022483

Quote

Safety and immunogenicity of ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 vaccine administered in a prime-boost regimen in young and old adults (COV002): a single-blind, randomised, controlled, phase 2/3 trial

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32466-1/fulltext

Quote

RNA-Based COVID-19 Vaccine BNT162b2 Selected for a Pivotal Efficacy Study

In both younger and older adults, the 2 vaccine candidates elicited similar dosedependent SARS-CoV-2–neutralizing geometric mean titers (GMTs), comparable to or higher than the GMT of a panel of SARS-CoV-2 convalescent sera. BNT162b2 was associated with less systemic reactogenicity, particularly in older adults. Conclusion: These results support selection of the BNT162b2 vaccine candidate for Phase 2/3 large-scale safety and efficacy evaluation, currently underway...

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.08.17.20176651v1.full.pdf

THIS IS NOT RESEARCH, BUT IS WORTH READING 

Quote

Ensuring vaccine safety

…    There is an urgent need for COVID-19 vaccines and exciting progress to that end, but there remains a critical public health obligation to conduct rigorous evaluation to ensure safety as well as efficacy. Vaccines remain one of the most successful biomedical tools for prevention of disease. The urgent need for COVID-19 vaccines must be balanced with the imperative of ensuring safety and public confidence in vaccines by following the established clinical safety testing protocols throughout vaccine development, including both pre- and postdeployment…

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/11/16/science.abf0357.full 

 

4
Up Vote Up Vote ×
3 hours ago, herring_RN said:

THIS IS NOT RESEARCH, BUT IS WORTH READING 

 

Thanks but basically the information we have about these vaxs are coming from the drug makers. And the trickling of information just doesn't do enough for me. I'm leery of anything being forced with zero to minimal supporting evidence. I still want to know how they are able to determine the effectiveness of these vaxs and the longevity of immunity if people who have been infected with the virus have no long term immunity. None of these companies have addressed nor explained that clear enough to my liking. The rush for financial gain isn't worth the unknown risks for me.

3
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Critical Care; Cardiac; Professional Development.

I have been gung ho to get the vaccine, I admit. I am so freaking tired of being anxious, of having to talk to people who are science deniers and who listen to certain political entities without a shred of critical thinking. I am a strong proponent of vaccines.

That being said, much that my fellow nurses are saying here, at least those whose opinions I have read and considered for years before now, have me re-evaluating my stance. I am not saying not to get it or that I won't get it. I am, however, saying that I need to look more deeply before I roll up my sleeve. 

I would like to thank those who have managed to have this conversation without calling anyone a liberal or posting insults. Those are the people I am listening to and taking seriously. This is a critical time in the history of the world and I am sick to death of the rabble rousers. 

8
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Critical care, tele, Medical-Surgical.

The way I think of this there ARE peer-reviewed publications. During the months of the clinical trials the tens of thousands of volunteers did not exhibit safety concerns. The groups receiving the vaccine did produce antibodies. Among those who got a placebo many did test positive.

BUT scientists cannot yet know how long the immunity lasts. When a vaccine is offered to seniors I will check that it is probably safe after talking with my physician and NP, and be vaccinated. When the healthcare workers, nursing home residents and employees, and seniors who choose to take the vaccine I think new infections will decrease. Also our level of immunity can be studied as months go by. The peer reviewed publications state there must be more research to better understand COVID-19.

I think vaccinating people who want it is a good start.

Quote

Peer-reviewed publications on the covid vaccines:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa2022483

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32466-1/fulltext

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.08.17.20176651v1.full.pdf

  PS: In 2002 the G.W. Bush administration announced a plan have Americans get Smallpox vaccinations to, "Better protect the American people against the threat of smallpox attack by hostile groups or governments". Our local Department of Health Services considered mandating licensed nurses and others vaccinated.

The California Nurses Association opposed it based on the following reasons:

  1. There is no proven evidence of the likelihood of a smallpox attack. However, there are known dangers from a smallpox program both to caregivers and their patients. Those include severe life-threatening skin reactions, brain inflammation, and non-life threatening skin reactions including blindness and toxic rash. The CDC estimates 30% of those vaccinated will be unable to work for a period of time. An ancillary danger is secondary transmission from the live vaccine form caregivers to patients and family members. Alternatively, the vaccine is effective up to four days from exposure.
  2.  Compensation and liability issues: The federal government has failed to provide compensation programs for individuals harmed as a result of the vaccination program, while offering liability exemptions for pharmaceutical corporations that profit from the program.
  3. Diversion of funds jeopardizes essential preventive health care programs: Local health departments across the U.S. are reporting that the diversion of funds for the smallpox program is shifting vital resources from proven epidemiological dangers such as tuberculosis screenings and immunization clinics for children.
  4. Opposition to a unilateral war against Iraq: The smallpox program inflames public fears contributing to efforts to generate support for an ill-conceived war. CNA condemns all acts of terrorism against civilians and endorses international initiatives by the United Nations to promote disarmament through peaceful means.

https://www.ph.ucla.edu/epi/bioter/nursesgroupopposes.html 

PPS: I have enjoyed the contributions on this and other topics. My thought is that the original poster and other members in this thread haven't use insults because they are trying to communicate, not just win. THANK YOU!

3
Up Vote Up Vote ×

I am not totally opposed to the vaccine but I certainly don't want to be first in line. There is a high chance of it being required when traveling to other countries that have had a high number of cases - similar to the Yellow Fever vaccine - if it becomes a requirement for travel I would go ahead and get it. 

Up Vote Up Vote ×
+ Join the Discussion