Coronavirus Second Wave?

[sirI]

Quote

The new coronavirus outbreak in Beijing grew to 106 cases Tuesday, with 29 communities in the sprawling Chinese capital back on lockdown.

Yet again, a coronavirus outbreak in China is linked to a food market ...

This coronavirus resurgence and reaction is worryingly reminiscent of the unprecedented lockdown of Wuhan and the surrounding regions in central China that began in January.

Quote

Beyond Beijing, this new surge is not Asia's only flare-up: Japan's capital city of Tokyo has reported more than 20 new cases havens here day over the past six days.

The surges in two of Asia's biggest capitals serve as a clear warning to America and all other countries: reopening risks reinfection.

Read in its entirety: China races to contain a second wave of coronavirus cases in Beijing

Do you think this will become increasingly problematic?

With the re-opening of the U.S., are we facing a second wave?

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

1 hour ago, anewmanx said:

It’s too late to put Pandora back in the box.

I hate to say it but this. It's too late and we really can't turn back time and say what we should have done.

Here in Florida, and Tampa Bay where I live, after dodging a bullet and doing well, we are seeing an upturn in both positive cases and hospitalizations. In St. Petersburg we went from 1% of those being tested turning positive, to 8%.

It is however, mostly the young and healthy that are getting it in this area so the hospitals aren't overwhelmed, and there are critical care beds...for now. We're preparing for a surge and I hope that doesn't happen. Where I work we at one point went down to zero patients a few weeks go, up to six two weeks ago, and now over 25 in a matter of just a couple of weeks.

What's telling to me also is that testing centers here in Tampa Bay are overwhelmed with both symptomatic people and people that have been exposed needing testing. It's taking hours to get tested, cars wrapped around the block, and lengthy time on hold to get an appointment to be tested. The good news is that it's not a matter of them not having enough tests, but having such a high volume. You still have to meet criteria to be tested so it truly is the sick or the exposed needing tests.

Clearly the mayors and governor are not talking about going back into lockdown. They are cracking down on violators of the 50% capacity at bars and restaurants and many communities are requiring mask wearing.

I'm afraid all that is too late. We'll see how it plays out.

Thanks for letting me vent.

[NormaSaline]

19 minutes ago, Tweety said:

t is however, mostly the young and healthy that are getting it in this area so the hospitals aren't overwhelmed

But of course those young and healthy come in contact with the ... not young and not healthy.

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

9 hours ago, NormaSaline said:

It was not quite possible for me to download this image, so I captured it. This looks like a good flyer, though.

Israelis don't whine about having to wear a mask. It's a lot more comfortable than the gas masks citizens keep in their houses (distributed by the government) for terrorist attacks. And people whine over a little cloth mask?

[Guest1142305]

On 6/23/2020 at 9:01 PM, NormaSaline said:

But of course those young and healthy come in contact with the ... not young and not healthy.

Which is why the elderly and ill should self isolate until the virus has burned through the youth and stops transmitting.

I'd rather it went through the population now than in flu season.

[toomuchbaloney]

On 6/23/2020 at 10:26 PM, anewmanx said:

Which is why the elderly and ill should self isolate until the virus has burned through the youth and stops transmitting.

I'd rather it went through the population now than in flu season.

That is not practical. That is tens of millions of infections in this country. It is not even known if infection = immunity or how robust any immunity might be. The virus is likely not going to stop "transmitting" this calendar year. The Americas are still in the first wave of the pandemic. We can't prevent COVID from spreading during influenza season, unless everyone masks, distances, sanitizes, etc.

[Guest1142305]

On 6/23/2020 at 11:52 PM, toomuchbaloney said:

That is not practical. That is tens of millions of infections in this country. It is not even known if infection = immunity or how robust any immunity might be. The virus is likely not going to stop "transmitting" this calendar year. The Americas are still in the first wave of the pandemic. We can't prevent COVID from spreading during influenza season, unless everyone masks, distances, sanitizes, etc.

It’s a coronavirus, the only thing that makes this particular strain interesting is the unique spike protein to which allows it to bind to the ACE-2 enzyme as it’s pathways into our cells, leaving the elderly and certain ethnicities particularly vulnerable to more severe infection. It shares a striking genetic similarity with SARS and MERS, but because it is less deadly has resulted in pandemic status as it has spread without killing the vast majority of its hosts. Studies show that SARS and MERS usually provide 2-3 years of residual immunity. Unless this virus targets cells unique to the immune system, which so far studies do not indicate, then our immune system will do what it always does and provide a residual immunity proportionate the severity of the initial reaction.

All humans are fallible, and the majority are poorly educated. There is a standard distribution in iq scores for a reason. The majority are not remarkable. Expecting the world to work toward eliminating this virus through stringent measures and to rationally perceive the magnitude of the situation is not a realistic goal. Let the herd catch it and it will slow when there are less vectors.

I feel it is worth mentioning that we live in a society that has miserably failed even at the elimination of readily preventable sexually transmitted infections. What makes anyone think we can stop the spread of a respiratory virus? It’s ludicrous. People can only be managed, not controlled.

[toomuchbaloney]

On 6/24/2020 at 12:17 AM, anewmanx said:

It’s a coronavirus, the only thing that makes this particular strain interesting is the unique spike protein to which allows it to bind to the ACE-2 enzyme as it’s pathways into our cells, leaving the elderly and certain ethnicities particularly vulnerable to more severe infection. It shares a striking genetic similarity with SARS and MERS, but because it is less deadly has resulted in pandemic status as it has spread without killing the vast majority of its hosts. Studies show that SARS and MERS usually provide 2-3 years of residual immunity. Unless this virus targets cells unique to the immune system, which so far studies do not indicate, then our immune system will do what it always does and provide a residual immunity proportionate the severity of the initial reaction.

All humans are fallible, and the majority are poorly educated. There is a standard distribution in iq scores for a reason. The majority are not remarkable. Expecting the world to work toward eliminating this virus through stringent measures and to rationally perceive the magnitude of the situation is not a realistic goal. Let the herd catch it and it will slow when there are less vectors.

I feel it is mentioning that we live in a society that has miserably failed even at the elimination of readily preventable sexually transmitted infections. What makes anyone think we can stop the spread of a respiratory virus? It’s ludicrous. People can only be managed, not controlled.

The virus is having interesting effects on the unique elements of the immune system. It is not clear that this particular covid provides an immune response similar to SARS or MERS and a healthy number of COVIDs provide no lasting immunity, fortunately they're are largely associated with minor URI. If the herd doesn't continue to try to mitigate this virus NOW and until an effective vaccine is widely distributed, the American death toll and economic costs will be unimaginable.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/herd-immunity-and-coronavirus/art-20486808

[Guest1142305]

27 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

The virus is having interesting effects on the unique elements of the immune system. It is not clear that this particular covid provides an immune response similar to SARS or MERS and a healthy number of COVIDs provide no lasting immunity, fortunately they're are largely associated with minor URI. If the herd doesn't continue to try to mitigate this virus NOW and until an effective vaccine is widely distributed, the American death toll and economic costs will be unimaginable.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/herd-immunity-and-coronavirus/art-20486808

Vaccines for corona viruses are particularly hard to develop, and there is no guarantee it will not mutate and provide itself with a new vector for infiltrating human cells.

Waiting for a vaccine is a pipe dream. More will die from poverty, malnutrition, rioting, and societal collapse if the insanity of perpetual lockdown continues to be proposed by those whose wealth affords this luxury.

[toomuchbaloney]

1 hour ago, anewmanx said:

Vaccines for corona viruses are particularly hard to develop, and there is no guarantee it will not mutate and provide itself with a new vector for infiltrating human cells.

Waiting for a vaccine is a pipe dream. More will die from poverty, malnutrition, rioting, and societal collapse if the insanity of perpetual lockdown continues to be proposed by those whose wealth affords this luxury.

I don't agree. That amount of suffering and death is not an acceptable trade off for a rush to herd immunity. The medical literature that I read is not supportive of perspective.

[Guest1142305]

3 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

I don't agree. That amount of suffering and death is not an acceptable trade off for a rush to herd immunity. The medical literature that I read is not supportive of perspective.

We are stuck at the crossroads of idealism contra pragmatism. I have faith in man’s incapacity. It will not be contained. We remain unable to contain HIV, and it is by no means as easy to transmit as a respiratory virus. People will not stop interacting. A vaccine is unlikely to arrive soon, or prove effective. People are fallible. You cannot put pandora back in the box. Acceptance of our new reality is the only realistic path forward; with all it entails.

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

On 6/23/2020 at 10:26 PM, anewmanx said:

Which is why the elderly and ill should self isolate until the virus has burned through the youth and stops transmitting.

I'd rather it went through the population now than in flu season.

I agree and around here that is what's happening. The older people are the least infected because they are following precautions and staying home.

Unfortunately what we are also seeing is that infected staff working in nursing homes are bringing to residents. These are residents that haven't been allowed out of the rooms for weeks, who have been tested and are negative that are now converted to positive.

Some live with their parents who aren't in the best of shape, on and on. We have 40 and 50 years getting real sick.

I don't care if they burn it through themselves if they could keep it to themselves.

But like I said, it's going to do what it's going to do. The virus is in control. It's burning through the younger healthy population and they are recovering with some collateral damage that costs billions and suffering but oh well at lest they will be fine.

[NurseBlaq]

Coronavirus has already mutated and there are already patients who have been known to be reinfected a second time. I'm not sure if it was a different or the same strain but the fact they were reinfected shows there is no immunity, hence herd immunity is nonexistent. Add to that the people who have recovered but have severe heart and/or lung disease as a result of the damage covid has done. No, we can't shut down forever, but there are ways to slow progression. Unfortunately, people don't want to follow basic rules and thrive on conflict so they're doing all they can to be obstructionists.