Can an employer penalize you for calling-in due to illness?
What Members Are Saying (AI-Generated Summary)
Members are discussing the challenges of taking time off work for personal or family reasons, the impact of workplace policies on absences, and the availability of substitute nurses. Some members express frustration with policies and the difficulty of balancing work and personal responsibilities, while others highlight the need for proper utilization of substitute nurses to cover staffing shortages. There is also mention of the disparity in sick days between different professions and the impact of economic factors on staffing.
We're having some issues related to absenteeism on our unit, which resulted in our director auditing the attendance of every employee on the floor, and subsequently meeting with each and every one of us to discuss said attendance. I was given a "verbal warning", which I had to sign, due to having 3 call-ins over the last year. Yesterday, we had to take my 3-year old to Urgent Care, as it was evident he had bilateral conjunctivitis. I had to call-in today, because there's no way he could go to daycare, he needs antibiotic eye gtt TID, and has been spiking fevers of 102-103. I know from my meeting that 4 call-ins = a written warning. (At five, we lose our yearly bonus and are suspended for a couple days - it goes on from there.)
My question is - is this legal? I know my call-ins were illness-related (either my own or my 3 year old). I've gotten sick a lot over the last year, thanks in large part to working in an incredibly high-stress medical/telemetry unit and being exposed to every bug out there, which I then take home to my family, of course. I've been wading through FMLA, and it appears to me that illness would be covered, and I shouldn't be penalized for it, right?
Advice or information? I didn't find anything specific to the healthcare field in FMLA, which is the usual excuse when my employer does things like this.
Hubby knows this about me, has accepted this and is the person on puke detail if needed. I will add that if I am the only one around and it happens, I can and do take charge. but I'll be pukin soon after I clean up the little ones. .
I think God must somehow make sure at least one parent can handle puke!!
first off if you work full time, 3 absences in a year does not seem excessive. because our job is physical and we take care of sick people there are times we can't come in but a person with a desk job and a dedicated phone could. examples would be a sprained ankle or a hacking cough. i hate using the phone after some one who has a cold. the industry would seem to need to allow more sick time because of the nature of the job. but also a cold can linger for a week or more, you can't be out that long for a cold.
in every job there are people who abuse sick time and it makes it harder for all of us. my hospital just re did there absentee policy. it states you get a certain amount of absences depending on your work status. also if you are out 4 consecutive days with the flu that is one absence. if you have a flu out for 2 days then feel better go back for one and relapse and have to call in sick again that would be 2 absences or occurrences. i think it makes sense but then you have to really decide if you are well enough to go back. also they put language in the absentee policy regarding patterns, staff who always call in sick on mondays or fridays to get a long weekend, or who have a few days off before and after a sick call to get a long stretch off, or people who call in sick on a day they requested off but didn't get scheduled off. they also have language that says manager has discretion. a staff member battling cancer is going to be allowed a lot more leeway than some one with multiple isolated absences not related to major illness.
now staying home to take care of kids is a different matter. i had a co-worker upset because it counted as a sick day when she had to call in and take her kid to the er. what should it count as? the hospital is a business. it also isn't fair to people who don't have kids. i worked when my kids were young. fortunately i worked swing shift and if the kids were mildly sick my mother would watch them til my husband got home from work or my husband would come home early. i agree that most kids want their moms when they are sick. i had a co worker once whose husband was a pediatrician and her kids were calling her at work asking when they could take more tylenol :) there was only one time my kid was so sick that i felt i needed to be home over my husband. she had severe strep that didn't test positive on the quick test so she kept getting worse at home and had severe throat swelling ended up on steroids.
i don't think someone with cancer deserves any more consideration than anyone who is trying to bring up their children, especially single parents, those without any family close by (you had your mom to help you, some of us have no one but friends or neighbors- no siblings or parents or other relatives or a helpful mate). sorry to be hard but i don't think it's fair.
they need to deal with those who are violating the policy in the ways you described - long weekends, etc, not make it hard on those who are trying their damdest to be good workers and good parents. this really angers me. in case you can't tell..:)
currently in most states (there are a few exceptions) there is no law gaurunteeing sick time.
many court cases have declared that sick time is purely voluntary on the part of the employer and offering sick time (which is really only sick pay) in no way obligates them to allow you time off for illness. the only law (other than the few exceptions) is fmla.
even if you never called off in 30 years and then called in sick one time they could write you up.
i noticed that you said that there were attendance problems. the normal way of dealing with attendance problems is to start ruling with an iron fist. if employees can't manage the responsibility on their own then management has to do it. when management does it they usually do it with a heavy fist.
so an employer can put in writing that there are so many sick days for a certain employee but then say, "oh, we really didn't mean it. it was just a come-on to get you to work here."? that sounds illegal to me. :uhoh21:
When there is a husband present...or not...why don't they take time off? It seems always the woman's position to do so...it was a 50/50 reproduction thing!
In our case, it's because my husband just started a new job and is in the midst of his probationary period. He literally can't call-in. I have sick time, why shouldn't I use it?
From what you have described, your days off are not excessive, IMO.
Please, double check the contract that you signed when you were hired and contact your Union Rep. (if you belong to a Union that is).
Remember, you are an at-will employee (I think all states are at-will....Montana has a certain clause though).
Your employer can use their discretion and terminate you for any reason, so long as their reason is not prohibited by contract, state or federal law, constitutional requirements, or public policy.
I am in the school of thought that nobody should have provide a reason to why they are calling in. What you do with your life outside of work is your business.
Having to provide a reason for an absence is really silly because everyone truly believes that their reason for calling in is much more important than their co-workers' reasons.
Then it comes down to a competition of who has the "best" excuse and reason for calling in. ....which will often causes a lot of animosity amongst co-workers.
All workers should be allowed for "x" number of days off a month/year, whatever. Use them any way you want..... and an employer must understand and respect this.
I don't think someone with cancer deserves any more consideration than anyone who is trying to bring up their children, especially single parents, those without any family close by (you had your Mom to help you, some of us have no one but friends or neighbors- no siblings or parents or other relatives or a helpful mate). Sorry to be hard but I don't think it's fair.
So, people with children deserve MORE consideration than somone with CA, are you kidding me! Sounds like you expect that your employer needs to make accomodations for your choices in life, and *SUPRISE* it's not up to them to make your world a happy cozy place. As a divorced woman WITHOUT children, I'm so over the expectations that "you can work the holiday/overtime/weekends/illness coverage because you don't have any kids" that gets thrown at me every time I turn around. Contrary to popular belief, I have a life outside of work and will not be pressured to do all the hours that others find inconvenient. My own mother went back to nursing school in the early 1970's, and NOT ONCE did she ever stay home with me because I was sick. You made your own choices in life, time to make the best of it without making the rest of us pick up your slack.
We have a union and in our contract it addresses our sick policy. We are allowed 2 sick days per quarter. There are 4 quarters in a year. That totals 8 sick days per year. Now, our union contract says we can manipulate that a bit to get even more sick days. If our shifts fall back to back (for example, a monday and a tuesday), you can call in on both of those "back to back" days and that only equals 1 sick day. Furthermore, if you are scheduled to work "back to back to back", you can call off on all three of those shifts (as long as they are back to back to back, like monday, tuesday, and wednesday) and that only counts as 1 sick day. So technically, those sick days can be stretched into 24 sick days, without punishment from management.
This sounds all peachy, but the management really screws us over in other ways. We have to do handwritten (which are extensive) careplans on all of our patients. In addition to that, each shift must add to or manipulate the careplan EVERY single shift. We get written up if we don't. If we fail to adhere to our policies in any way, we are written. It's so outrageous. I'm looking for a new job.
so an employer can put in writing that there are so many sick days for a certain employee but then say, "oh, we really didn't mean it. it was just a come-on to get you to work here."? that sounds illegal to me. :uhoh21:
they are not saying they did not mean it. what it means is that you get so many paid sick days per year, not so many days per year to call in for whatever reason you feel like and have no consequences. there are always going to be consequences when a person has called in so many times that their absenteeism is deemed excessive. if there were no consequences, there would never be enough staff there to take care of the patients. i understand being sick and having to take care of sick kids and family etc but there are only so many times you can do this before you start to become an unreliable employee. having consequences for overuse of sick time is not illegal. would you honestly rely on the person who as called in 22 times in a year (yes this has happened with a nurse who works on my floor)? i think not, that person should have been terminated long ago. one or two or even 5 a year is plausable and i think some employers start penalizing too early (mine included) but it is policy and there is nothing that i can do about it.
I don't believe FMLA is going to help you. Of course it really depends on how your facility interprets the federal policy. In our facility you can get it on yourself or a family member that needs your care. It is used for chronic conditions or other conditions that may take several months to resolve.
We get 12 sick days a year. We get a verbal at 6, written at 12, etc. But my nurse manager gives us a lot of slack. For some reason nursing has make me sicker . I don't get the colds I used to at my old office job, but I get the major stuff now. Go figure. :)
They are not saying they did not mean it. What it means is that you get so many PAID sick days per year, not so many days per year to call in for whatever reason you feel like If there were no consequences, there would never be enough staff there to take care of the patients. I understand being sick and having to take care of sick kids and family etc but there are only so many times you can do this before you start to become an unreliable employee. Having consequences for overuse of sick time is not illegal.
The key word here is "overuse." If an employer provides, say, 10 paid sick days per year, and the employee uses 5 of those days, that should not be grounds for discipline, as it is not overuse, since there are still 5 sick days not used. Of course, this depends on the wording of your employee contract.
Where I work, we get paid sick days, and I have used over 10 of them in the past year, between illnesses for myself and my daughter, but I have not been disciplined or counseled about them because of the protection I get from my employment contract. However, there are rules: I bring in doctor's notes for all call outs; I give notice when I call out (4 hours before the start of the shift); and I don't go over the alloted paid sick time that I have accumulated (over 20 days). In addition, I work for an employer that lets us carry over unused sick time, and we are allowed to use our sick time for immediate family member illnesses, too. We are also NOT punished for using sick time, unless we call out on weekends and don't bring in a doctor's note, or we call out more than 6 times during the weekdays without bringing in a doctor's note. I'm very thankful that I work for an employer that not only provides sick time, but doesn't punish us for using them unless we abuse them. I know it's legal, but why offer sick time to employees, but then expect them not to use it?
i don't think someone with cancer deserves any more consideration than anyone who is trying to bring up their children, especially single parents, those without any family close by (you had your mom to help you, some of us have no one but friends or neighbors- no siblings or parents or other relatives or a helpful mate). sorry to be hard but i don't think it's fair.
they need to deal with those who are violating the policy in the ways you described - long weekends, etc, not make it hard on those who are trying their damdest to be good workers and good parents. this really angers me. in case you can't tell..:)
omg!! as someone who has battled cancer since march 2008 i have to tell you that your statement angers me beyond belief!! you try having six major surgeries, chemo, etc for nine months and tell me how you feel!!
luckily i had long term disability and have used it since june, but it's a fraction of what i could have made and i have to pay cobra, too.
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....which will often causes a lot of animosity amongst co-workers.
. I don't get the colds I used to at my old office job, but I get the major stuff now. Go figure. :)
racing-mom4, BSN, RN
1,446 Posts
I think God must somehow make sure at least one parent can handle puke!!