We're having some issues related to absenteeism on our unit, which resulted in our director auditing the attendance of every employee on the floor, and subsequently meeting with each and every one of us to discuss said attendance. I was given a "verbal warning", which I had to sign, due to having 3 call-ins over the last year. Yesterday, we had to take my 3-year old to Urgent Care, as it was evident he had bilateral conjunctivitis. I had to call-in today, because there's no way he could go to daycare, he needs antibiotic eye gtt TID, and has been spiking fevers of 102-103. I know from my meeting that 4 call-ins = a written warning. (At five, we lose our yearly bonus and are suspended for a couple days - it goes on from there.)
My question is - is this legal? I know my call-ins were illness-related (either my own or my 3 year old). I've gotten sick a lot over the last year, thanks in large part to working in an incredibly high-stress medical/telemetry unit and being exposed to every bug out there, which I then take home to my family, of course. I've been wading through FMLA, and it appears to me that illness would be covered, and I shouldn't be penalized for it, right?
Advice or information? I didn't find anything specific to the healthcare field in FMLA, which is the usual excuse when my employer does things like this.
Few (if any) employers will tolerate "excessive" use of sick time. They need people to work and most larger companies have guidelines about how many episodes of illness a person can have before they start being considered "unreliable" and start down the road of disciplinary action.
The question is, "How much is excessive?" My employer allows 2 episodes of illness per 90 days (allowing for a single episode to involve more than 1 sick day.) More than that and the employee receives a warning that they have exceeded the allowed amount. If the pattern continues, they go down the path of disciplinary action one step at a time all the way to termination if necessary. However, as they go longer periods of time without exceeding the allowable quota of episodes, they "back out" of the disciplinary process. Only those with a prolonged pattern of frequent illness episodes ever get more than a slap on the wrist. The ones who actually get fired are few and far between and generally have a long pattern of being unreliable employees.
Technically, this is legal. Now, if they give you 'sick hours' you should be able to take them without punishment.
Other than that they can punish you for missing work.
Employees basically have a contract with employers. That contract states you will work a certain amount of time and they will pay you a certain amoutn and give you certain benefits. You doing anyhting beyond that is like a breach of contract.
You agreed to be at work. Now, of course we all get sick, it just seems that in nursing people get a lot more latitude than in other industries.
I understand a parent has to be off to care for their child. It's a hard thing I imagine. But the child is the parent's responsibility. Not the jobs.
They do give us sick time. I'm being written-up for using it, essentially.
Make sure you give your manager a doctor's note. What does the verbal warning mean? Did you have to sign anything? Do you think you will have to sign something next time? If so, and you are a union hospital, call your union rep and make sure he or she is present with you at that meeting.
Personally, I think that four call outs in a year is not excessive.
The verbal warning is the first step in the process. It essentially means for the next "offense" I can receive a written warning. I did have to sign it, and I know I will have to sign something this time. We have no union.
My hospital you get 4 absences (we count tardies also 3 tardies = 1 absence) in a rolling calendar year and you are counseled. You are then counseled again at 7, and 9 and terminated at 10. we earn paid time off, but you can only use that for calling in so many times per year otherwise you get in trouble. This is legal as your employer is counting on you being there when you are scheduled. It is not penalizing you because you or your children get sick but only if you do it too often.
Years ago, while working at a pharmacy for a National chain, I had double pneumonia and there was no way I was going into work. Add to the illness, there was a true blizzard going on, very few roads were passable and I lived too far to walk into work. I knew that very few, if any, patients would be going to the pharmacy so I wasn't feeling that bad about calling in. When I called, 3 hours before I was due to go it, the phone was answered by one of the only two people that went in, the general store manager. The only other person working was the Pharmacist. I explained my illness, my temp, the meds I was on etc and was told point blank and bluntly, "either you get your @ss into work or don't come back ever again" I asked how he could fire me for calling in and his reply was "excessive absenteeism" I laughed at him and said "how is calling in once time in TWO yeorificexcessive??!! When YOU have called in at least 4 times in the last 5 months?" He again said "get in here to work or your fired". Needless to say, I didn't go in. (I did have sick time as a benefit of the job and I was full time. I never worked just my hired 40 hrs, I would always go in early, stay late, or go in on my days off. I was always given a "model employee" statement on my evals)
I went to the Labor Board and was told that although it was ridicioulous, the manager could fire me for "excessive absenteeism" even though I had only called in once in two years. It was at the discretion of the employeer to deem what was excessive.
I will never understand why employeers will give X amount of sick time hours/days but freak when people use them. If they don't want them to be out that many times in a year, why even offer them?? And the old "please don't come in if you are sick, we don't want you getting the other employees and patients sick" is the funniest thing ever since you call in and they freak out about it, they don't care that you have bodily fluids coming out of both ends AND running a fever....get your butt into work!
I think to write the OP up for her being absent is crazy. But sadly, my opinions won't change that of her employer...
When there is a husband present...or not...why don't they take time off? It seems always the woman's position to do so...it was a 50/50 reproduction thing!
Don't generalize, but the truth in my household is my dad probably makes 2-3x's more than a nurse. Why in the hell would he risk his job security, when all my mom has to do is just move on to another hospital or facility that's desperate for nurses?
We all have to call in at some point, but let's be smart about it..
In my household when a kid is sick they want thier mom. Moms/dads--Husbands/wifes are different. We are each better equipt to manage different things.
Yes when my husband makes dinner I do look at it like he is helping me, as dinner is typically my job (I am better at it--ask my kids) when I sweep out the garage or take out the trash then I am helping him, as those are typically his job.
My kid can puke in my hair and I will pat thier back and tell them they are OK. Same kid can puke in a bucket 30 feet a way and Hubby will go racing to the bathroom gagging himself.
If someone pukes on TV, I start gagging. If someone puked in my hair I'd probably fall over dead then and there. Heck, I've gagged reading some of the posts about gross stuff here on allnurses. If I had kids, they would most likely want their dad.
If someone pukes on TV, I start gagging. If someone puked in my hair I'd probably fall over dead then and there. Heck, I've gagged reading some of the posts about gross stuff here on allnurses. If I had kids, they would most likely want their dad.
Just wait--someday when your sweet little bundle of love pukes in your hair---and they will. You will just push your hair aside and wipe the tears off her fevered little cheeks...LOL---or possibly drop dead then and there and hope your hubby finds you!!!
I'm confused. Some people have said that they can write you up for using sick days. ???? If the company gives you 10 sick days a year (or whatever the #), why are you penalized for using them???? That makes no sense. Everyone gets sick, and why give employees sick days if you get in trouble for using them? Isn't that what they are for?? 3 or 4 sick days in a year is not at all excessive! That is ridiculous IMO.
I think we all agree that it is ridiculous. I'd never work for a company that would do this. A good employer will work with you. Make compromises or changes to suit you and them.
The question though is if it is legal. Legal it is. Fair or right or considerate or in the employee's OR employer's best interest? Not so much.
Just wait--someday when your sweet little bundle of love pukes in your hair---and they will. You will just push your hair aside and wipe thier tears off thier fevered little cheeks...LOL---or possibly drop dead then and there and hope your hubby finds you!!!
Uhh yeah have to respond to this LOL. I love my children to pieces and would put my life on the line to keep them safe, I'd offer my own life to protect theirs BUT...
I will run for the hills when one of them gets that tell-tale gag before they puke thing they do! My older one puked in my hair once, I was carrying her to the bathroom (she was a approx 2 yrs old), she hurled in my hair and down my back as I raced to the nearest place to let her puke..I had to set her down and started hurling myself into the sink...sorry, can't do puke, even with my own kids. :) Pushing my hair aside wasn't an option, the thought of possibly getting puke on my hands made it worse...yeah..I'm good thanks, no puking in my hair..ever.
Hubby knows this about me, has accepted this and is the person on puke detail if needed. I will add that if I am the only one around and it happens, I can and do take charge. but I'll be pukin soon after I clean up the little ones. At work the crew also knows I don't do well with puke detail..LOL...they love to do the gaggy puking sound and watch my reaction...or they love to say so-and-so just vomited, but you have to see it, it doesn't look normal...my face turns white. They just laugh their butts off after my reaction.
Just wait--someday when your sweet little bundle of love pukes in your hair---and they will. You will just push your hair aside and wipe the tears off her fevered little cheeks...LOL---or possibly drop dead then and there and hope your hubby finds you!!!
That's disgusting. If anyone, even my not yet existing child. were to puke in my hair I'd answer them with projectile vomit to their face.
I'm confused. Some people have said that they can write you up for using sick days. ???? If the company gives you 10 sick days a year (or whatever the #), why are you penalized for using them???? That makes no sense. Everyone gets sick, and why give employees sick days if you get in trouble for using them? Isn't that what they are for?? 3 or 4 sick days in a year is not at all excessive! That is ridiculous IMO.
Your company handbook should tell you how many times you can call out per rolling calendar year before getting a warning. Usually it's 4-6 times. That's not the same as getting 10 paid sick days. They give you more paid sick days with the assumption that each time you call out you may have to use more than one day before you're well enough to return to work. You could conceivable use up all 10 sick days in a rolling calendar year with only 1 or two call-outs.
And really, if you're only working 3 days a week, which most nurses do since they work 12s, 4 days out of the year can be quite a bit.
llg, PhD, RN
13,469 Posts
Few (if any) employers will tolerate "excessive" use of sick time. They need people to work and most larger companies have guidelines about how many episodes of illness a person can have before they start being considered "unreliable" and start down the road of disciplinary action.
The question is, "How much is excessive?" My employer allows 2 episodes of illness per 90 days (allowing for a single episode to involve more than 1 sick day.) More than that and the employee receives a warning that they have exceeded the allowed amount. If the pattern continues, they go down the path of disciplinary action one step at a time all the way to termination if necessary. However, as they go longer periods of time without exceeding the allowable quota of episodes, they "back out" of the disciplinary process. Only those with a prolonged pattern of frequent illness episodes ever get more than a slap on the wrist. The ones who actually get fired are few and far between and generally have a long pattern of being unreliable employees.