Can an employer penalize you for calling-in due to illness?
What Members Are Saying (AI-Generated Summary)
Members are discussing the challenges of taking time off work for personal or family reasons, the impact of workplace policies on absences, and the availability of substitute nurses. Some members express frustration with policies and the difficulty of balancing work and personal responsibilities, while others highlight the need for proper utilization of substitute nurses to cover staffing shortages. There is also mention of the disparity in sick days between different professions and the impact of economic factors on staffing.
We're having some issues related to absenteeism on our unit, which resulted in our director auditing the attendance of every employee on the floor, and subsequently meeting with each and every one of us to discuss said attendance. I was given a "verbal warning", which I had to sign, due to having 3 call-ins over the last year. Yesterday, we had to take my 3-year old to Urgent Care, as it was evident he had bilateral conjunctivitis. I had to call-in today, because there's no way he could go to daycare, he needs antibiotic eye gtt TID, and has been spiking fevers of 102-103. I know from my meeting that 4 call-ins = a written warning. (At five, we lose our yearly bonus and are suspended for a couple days - it goes on from there.)
My question is - is this legal? I know my call-ins were illness-related (either my own or my 3 year old). I've gotten sick a lot over the last year, thanks in large part to working in an incredibly high-stress medical/telemetry unit and being exposed to every bug out there, which I then take home to my family, of course. I've been wading through FMLA, and it appears to me that illness would be covered, and I shouldn't be penalized for it, right?
Advice or information? I didn't find anything specific to the healthcare field in FMLA, which is the usual excuse when my employer does things like this.
It cracks me, nurses work with sick patients. We tell our patients to take all the time they need to get better, yet we are suppose to work sick.
Isn't that the truth!!
You're sick and you come into work and almost everyone tells you need to go home now or you should have called in and they seem soooo sympathetic.
So, next time you are sick, you do call in sick and then when you return to work, just about everyone gives you a hard time and says useless and condescending statements like: "Wow, have a nice vacation?"...."Wish I had all those free days off!"...."Did you enjoy your mental health days?"...."Wish I could afford to take days off!", etc, etc........
Specializes in Peds Critical Care, Dialysis, General.
If I'm not mistaken, the OP said her child had bilateral conjuctivitis. We are not allowed near our facility with the stuff or exposure to the stuff. It is considered an "excused" absence. Employee Health must clear us to return. Chicken pox is also another thing we can't come in with or be exposed to. We go to Employee Health and get a note clearing us.
We are given a verbal warning after 5 occurrences (the number of days does not matter, but you do need to be cleared if out greater than 5 or so days). After 7, a written, then a final with 9. Number 10 makes termination.
They do give us sick time. I'm being written-up for using it, essentially.
Let's see each angle for a moment.
Your angle. Obviously you can't work when your baby is sick. You are alloted sick time by the company. If you have the sick time policy in writing that's a legally verifiable document.
Your supervisor. Understanding that already short staffed crews suffer from absenteeism. But if the company has specifically alloted sick time for their employees then Federal Labor and Wage laws prevent them from violating their own Policy and Procedures. (Yes, federal law protects you) For instance, if your checkstub has a specific area that shows accumulated sick time, you are in good shape. The supervisor really needs to brush up on the companies policies.
Corporate bosses: While employers can usually terminate an employee for any reason, they are usually hesitant to fire someone without a confirmed paper trail. For two reasons: 1.) They wish to avoid a lawsuit for Unlawful Termination. 2) They try to avoid paying workers compensation claims. Which a claimant can file and win without valid reasons for termination. And that is a unnecessary expense for the company.
Your Attorney! Yes I said attorney. If the above fail, which I doubt they will considering it's merely four absences in a year, call an employment attorney. Like I said, if they violate their own Policy and Procedures just to fire someone, they can face civil claims resulting in plaintiff receiving punitive damages.
Perhaps a nicely written letter to the supervisor, documenting your positive attitude and enjoyment of work, but that you do not feel that the harshness with which she came across was beneficial for a healthy working enviroment. You need to feel that you are a respected part of the team and work hard to keep that respect, and you would appreciate it the understanding of your supervisor when your child is sick.
It's only four days. If the above doesn't work, maybe you should get some Rum, get her drunk, and have her burn the write ups!
Specializes in Medical/Surgical/Maternal and Child.
You DO NOT HAVE TO SIGN ANYTHING that you disagree with and don't ever let them bully you into signing. Your kids come first and if they are sick and you need to stay home with them for that day then you need to stay home with them. Gadzooks!!! Sometimes kids can become ill very fast even from conjunctivitis. You can always find another job but what happens if your child becomes seriously ill and you can't be there for them??
Specializes in Cardiac Thoracic Surgery, Emergency Med.
I understand staying home for our sick children, but your sick time is for you - if you are sick. If your children are sick, my hospital says you have to use vacation time or not get paid to be out. Sick time, by policy, is to be used only if the employee is sick.
Whether or not people agree, it is understandable. If you work in an "employee at will" state, your employer essentially does not need a reason to fire you. It stinks, but it is true. If you work at a union hospital, maybe you should contact your union rep.
Your angle. Obviously you can't work when your baby is sick. You are alloted sick time by the company. If you have the sick time policy in writing that's a legally verifiable document.
Your supervisor. Understanding that already short staffed crews suffer from absenteeism. But if the company has specifically alloted sick time for their employees then Federal Labor and Wage laws prevent them from violating their own Policy and Procedures. (Yes, federal law protects you) For instance, if your checkstub has a specific area that shows accumulated sick time, you are in good shape. The supervisor really needs to brush up on the companies policies.
Corporate bosses: While employers can usually terminate an employee for any reason, they are usually hesitant to fire someone without a confirmed paper trail. For two reasons: 1.) They wish to avoid a lawsuit for Unlawful Termination. 2) They try to avoid paying workers compensation claims. Which a claimant can file and win without valid reasons for termination. And that is a unnecessary expense for the company.
Your Attorney! Yes I said attorney. If the above fail, which I doubt they will considering it's merely four absences in a year, call an employment attorney. Like I said, if they violate their own Policy and Procedures just to fire someone, they can face civil claims resulting in plaintiff receiving punitive damages.
Perhaps a nicely written letter to the supervisor, documenting your positive attitude and enjoyment of work, but that you do not feel that the harshness with which she came across was beneficial for a healthy working enviroment. You need to feel that you are a respected part of the team and work hard to keep that respect, and you would appreciate it the understanding of your supervisor when your child is sick.
It's only four days. If the above doesn't work, maybe you should get some Rum, get her drunk, and have her burn the write ups!
Good Luck!
They can't violate their policies, but the company followed their sick policy when they wrote her up. Sick time is different then "call outs". Sick time can usually be used for doctor's appts, so it can be scheduled and that's what has to be done if the ee wants to use all of their sick time and not be penalized.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
i don't think someone with cancer deserves any more consideration than anyone who is trying to bring up their children, especially single parents, those without any family close by (you had your mom to help you, some of us have no one but friends or neighbors- no siblings or parents or other relatives or a helpful mate). sorry to be hard but i don't think it's fair.
they need to deal with those who are violating the policy in the ways you described - long weekends, etc, not make it hard on those who are trying their damdest to be good workers and good parents. this really angers me. in case you can't tell..:)
i do think someone with cancer deserves more consideration than a healthy person trying to bring up children. you presumably wanted to have children, planned for their care and have someone to take care of them when you're at work. i don't know anyone who wished for cancer, planned ahead for it or is happy to have it. and then there's the matter than someone who needs to have chemo has to be present to have the chemo. it would be nice if you were home for every sore throat or bad cold your child has, but it isn't necessary. sometimes a friend or neighbor or even a babysitter can be there.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
omg!! as someone who has battled cancer since march 2008 i have to tell you that your statement angers me beyond belief!! you try having six major surgeries, chemo, etc for nine months and tell me how you feel!!
luckily i had long term disability and have used it since june, but it's a fraction of what i could have made and i have to pay cobra, too.
We're having some issues related to absenteeism on our unit, which resulted in our director auditing the attendance of every employee on the floor, and subsequently meeting with each and every one of us to discuss said attendance. ...I've gotten sick a lot over the last year, thanks in large part to working in an incredibly high-stress medical/telemetry unit and being exposed to every bug out there, which I then take home to my family, of course...
We work around sick people all day and we are not expected to get ill. Plus, if your job is a real "drainer", you're not going to want to go to work and must resort to taking "mental health" days. Employers should staff adequately and have a system in place for full staffing should someone get ill. Getting sick happens and nurses should be given generous sick time due to the nature of our job! The issue is not necessarily with the employees, but with the employers; high pt loads and high acuity, no breaks, and stress contribute to absenteeism. Give us extra staff so we can take a lunch break and get out of work on time, let us use the restroom once a shift, and give us a pat on the back every now and then - and see how much better the absenteeism rate becomes!
Isn't it pathetic that nurses forgo these simple "perks"? I envy my husband who never skips a lunch and works at a desk all day long - with unlimited restroom breaks, free drinks, company lunches, a work-out gym to burn the mid-afternoon "slump", a plasma screen TV with video games galore...and yet, his team continues to exceed monthly productivity AND they are rarely ill. Go figure...
How are they going to penalize you? Suspend you, give you a paycut, fire you?
They're just trying to intimidate the people who call in for no reason. If you are as good a nurse as you are a mother than they would be stupid to hassle you. Do what you have to do, and let them do what they have to do. You'll still have job. Don't worry.
I understand staying home for our sick children, but your sick time is for you - if you are sick. If your children are sick, my hospital says you have to use vacation time or not get paid to be out. Sick time, by policy, is to be used only if the employee is sick.
Whether or not people agree, it is understandable. If you work in an "employee at will" state, your employer essentially does not need a reason to fire you. It stinks, but it is true. If you work at a union hospital, maybe you should contact your union rep.
Good luck!
At my facility sick time can be used for immediate family members also. Unless they are hospitalized. I guess they figure if you are in the hospital, someone is taking care of you.??? In that case you can use vacation time, saved legal holidays or just not get paid. I can't remember if the op was allowed to use sick days for her child - it seemed like that. I think she was worried about the frequencies.
I don't think someone with cancer deserves any more consideration than anyone who is trying to bring up their children, especially single parents, those without any family close by (you had your Mom to help you, some of us have no one but friends or neighbors- no siblings or parents or other relatives or a helpful mate). Sorry to be hard but I don't think it's fair.
So, people with children deserve MORE consideration than somone with CA, are you kidding me! Sounds like you expect that your employer needs to make accomodations for your choices in life, and *SUPRISE* it's not up to them to make your world a happy cozy place. As a divorced woman WITHOUT children, I'm so over the expectations that "you can work the holiday/overtime/weekends/illness coverage because you don't have any kids" that gets thrown at me every time I turn around. Contrary to popular belief, I have a life outside of work and will not be pressured to do all the hours that others find inconvenient. My own mother went back to nursing school in the early 1970's, and NOT ONCE did she ever stay home with me because I was sick. Suck it up, buttercup. You made your own choices in life, time to make the best of it without making the rest of us pick up your slack.
I'm not sure why you think I said that people with kids deserve MORE consideration than someone with CA. Your problem is that you feel picked on because you are childless, which I do understand and I do sympathize with you on this. However, please re-read my post. I did NOT say anyone deserved more leniency when it comes to calling off. I said that I think it is just as tough to bring up kids and hold down a job as it is to have cancer and hold down a job. Both are very difficult and the wise employer will try to help both parties.
BTW, I"m not a single parent and I don't expect anyone to take up slack for me and I don't expect anyone to ease my way in life.
I love my cat!
630 Posts
Isn't that the truth!!
You're sick and you come into work and almost everyone tells you need to go home now or you should have called in and they seem soooo sympathetic.
So, next time you are sick, you do call in sick and then when you return to work, just about everyone gives you a hard time and says useless and condescending statements like: "Wow, have a nice vacation?"...."Wish I had all those free days off!"...."Did you enjoy your mental health days?"...."Wish I could afford to take days off!", etc, etc........
Can't win. :innerconf