Can an employer penalize you for calling-in due to illness?
What Members Are Saying (AI-Generated Summary)
Members are discussing the challenges of taking time off work for personal or family reasons, the impact of workplace policies on absences, and the availability of substitute nurses. Some members express frustration with policies and the difficulty of balancing work and personal responsibilities, while others highlight the need for proper utilization of substitute nurses to cover staffing shortages. There is also mention of the disparity in sick days between different professions and the impact of economic factors on staffing.
We're having some issues related to absenteeism on our unit, which resulted in our director auditing the attendance of every employee on the floor, and subsequently meeting with each and every one of us to discuss said attendance. I was given a "verbal warning", which I had to sign, due to having 3 call-ins over the last year. Yesterday, we had to take my 3-year old to Urgent Care, as it was evident he had bilateral conjunctivitis. I had to call-in today, because there's no way he could go to daycare, he needs antibiotic eye gtt TID, and has been spiking fevers of 102-103. I know from my meeting that 4 call-ins = a written warning. (At five, we lose our yearly bonus and are suspended for a couple days - it goes on from there.)
My question is - is this legal? I know my call-ins were illness-related (either my own or my 3 year old). I've gotten sick a lot over the last year, thanks in large part to working in an incredibly high-stress medical/telemetry unit and being exposed to every bug out there, which I then take home to my family, of course. I've been wading through FMLA, and it appears to me that illness would be covered, and I shouldn't be penalized for it, right?
Advice or information? I didn't find anything specific to the healthcare field in FMLA, which is the usual excuse when my employer does things like this.
They can't violate their policies, but the company followed their sick policy when they wrote her up. Sick time is different then "call outs". Sick time can usually be used for doctor's appts, so it can be scheduled and that's what has to be done if the ee wants to use all of their sick time and not be penalized.
No matter what the policy says, unless an employer wants to fire someone, they will find a way to help the worker care for the worker's kids' needs without being harrassed for using sick time or any other horse puckey reasons. I'm beginning to wonder if the OP's boss just wants to get rid of her. That is usually when policies are invoked.
i don't think someone with cancer deserves any more consideration than anyone who is trying to bring up their children, especially single parents, those without any family close by (you had your mom to help you, some of us have no one but friends or neighbors- no siblings or parents or other relatives or a helpful mate). sorry to be hard but i don't think it's fair.
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wow surprising that a nurse wouldn't have more compassion for a person battling cancer and needing a sick time than a single parent with a child sick at home with stomach flu.
i'd have more compassion or understanding as a manager for a parent with a sick child with cancer than with someone who frequently has to take time off for colds, ear infections etc.
why? both have to be dealt with. both require the time and attention of the employee. maybe the cancer is not life-threatening but the ear and eye troubles are going to cause blindness, deafness if not dealt with. now what? and even if they're not going to, what is a parent supposed to do? ignore these illnesses? then they will need time off to get their kids back from social workers and time to spend in jail and going to court for child endangerment. lol, that could be a good thing. they'll be begging for overtime to pay the lawyers. see? all things work together for good in the end.
No matter what the policy says, unless an employer wants to fire someone, they will find a way to help the worker care for the worker's kids' needs without being harrassed for using sick time or any other horse puckey reasons. I'm beginning to wonder if the OP's boss just wants to get rid of her. That is usually when policies are invoked.
Good observation. Like an employee getting a yearly evaluation with criticism and being told that, "I haven't had one in over eight years here". Then three weeks later the employee whose work was criticized is let go.
Few (if any) employers will tolerate "excessive" use of sick time. They need people to work and most larger companies have guidelines about how many episodes of illness a person can have before they start being considered "unreliable" and start down the road of disciplinary action.
The question is, "How much is excessive?" My employer allows 2 episodes of illness per 90 days (allowing for a single episode to involve more than 1 sick day.) More than that and the employee receives a warning that they have exceeded the allowed amount. If the pattern continues, they go down the path of disciplinary action one step at a time all the way to termination if necessary. However, as they go longer periods of time without exceeding the allowable quota of episodes, they "back out" of the disciplinary process. Only those with a prolonged pattern of frequent illness episodes ever get more than a slap on the wrist. The ones who actually get fired are few and far between and generally have a long pattern of being unreliable employees.
So at your place you can be sick every 45 days, theoretically. At hers, she can be sick every 122 or so. This is big difference.
No matter what the policy says, unless an employer wants to fire someone, they will find a way to help the worker care for the worker's kids' needs without being harrassed for using sick time or any other horse puckey reasons. I'm beginning to wonder if the OP's boss just wants to get rid of her. That is usually when policies are invoked.
That's true if you're running a rinky dink mom and pop business, but a professional enviornment has to have consistancy. Either you discipline according to policy with everyone or you don't. I can't speak for any places where you have worked, but my coworkers and I have followed the policies consistantly with everyone..that's only fair. People fire themselves, the managers and HR don't need to do anything extra. You can't discipline one person and not another for the same incidents, that would be open season for a law suit and I would encourage anyone to file a complaint if they notice that they were being treated differenly than others.
So Sorry you are working for an employer that is using their policy to hide the fedral law that protects parents. If you have children or a family member that is depentent, (you are caring for when they are ill) you are protected. I work for a large company who has a focus of $$$. They pulled the 3 days a year call in policy. After the Union and the NLRB got involved we discovered that the Law protects parents from losing their job when caring for ill dependent family members. It's called "Kinder Care". We must call in with the statment "my child is ill" "I must say home to care for him". My hospital will write you up even if you are admitted to the hospital. You can file for Medical Leave. This will stop them from writing you up. No doctors note or even call from your doctor will stop this process. You can also file for intermittent medical leave, IML. The doctor must fill out this form. This is another hidden option. Your employer my not be truthful with you on the law or policies you have at your own company. I would spend time reading ALL of your human resources policies. We have had two:( nurses fired while they were out getting their chem tx. Crazy? They both have their jobs back after the Union and NLRB got involved. Our employer never told these two nurse they could apply for IML. Please keep youself informed. Good luck!
Isn't the federal law that allows people to take care of sick family member meant for longer term more serious illness? I didn't think it applied to minor illness, sore throat, cough, where the parent has to stay home one or two days. Maybe I am wrong. Also I think a doctor has to sign that the family member is needed to care for the sick person. How many parents take their kid to the doctor if they are home sick one day with the stomach flu?
Specializes in ICU, School Nurse, Med/Surg, Psych.
I used to work for a facility that had a very trying sick leave policy. More than three absences in 6 months = termination. If you were out sick on Monday, came back to work Tuesday, were out sick again on Wednesday and then came back on Thursday but were off again on Friday that equals 3 absences. I have IBD and yes I got fired for my chronic illness that is not covered under the Americans With Disabilities act- apparently going to the bathroom 40 times in one day is not debilitating accourding to the US congress which has denied adding IBD to the list of disabilities several times.
I recommend that if you are looking for another job and you find one, when you have your exit interview at your current job, mention the write up for "excessive" absences. Your absences don't sound excessive to me. And make sure you review the policies at your new job. Some places have policies they don't really follow, but if it came down to it, they could enforce them. Make sure you can live with them.
Having said that, however, I will say this: one of the reasons my husband stays home and I work is so we don't have to worry about who will care for our children. If he had the better-paying career the roles would be reversed until our kids were older. We've struggled some financially but we both feel the sacrifice is worth it. Yes if one of my kids is sick I'm probably not 100% at work. But I know my babies are in good hands. My husband learned on the job, just like I did, how to be a good parent.
BTW, my hospital does not allow you to use your sick time until your 3rd day off for an illness...the first 2 days are ETO/vacation time. And you can't use sick time to care for sick family members, even if you have FMLA coverage. Sick time is for the employee's illness only. I have almost a month of sick time saved up but I'd better have a good reason if I call in sick for a month...more than "it's my time, I'm going to use it."
So Sorry you are working for an employer that is using their policy to hide the fedral law that protects parents. If you have children or a family member that is depentent, (you are caring for when they are ill) you are protected. I work for a large company who has a focus of $$$. They pulled the 3 days a year call in policy. After the Union and the NLRB got involved we discovered that the Law protects parents from losing their job when caring for ill dependent family members. It's called "Kinder Care". We must call in with the statment "my child is ill" "I must say home to care for him". My hospital will write you up even if you are admitted to the hospital. You can file for Medical Leave. This will stop them from writing you up. No doctors note or even call from your doctor will stop this process. You can also file for intermittent medical leave, IML. The doctor must fill out this form. This is another hidden option. Your employer my not be truthful with you on the law or policies you have at your own company. I would spend time reading ALL of your human resources policies. We have had two:( nurses fired while they were out getting their chem tx. Crazy? They both have their jobs back after the Union and NLRB got involved. Our employer never told these two nurse they could apply for IML. Please keep youself informed. Good luck!
That's true if you're running a rinky dink mom and pop business, but a professional enviornment has to have consistancy. Either you discipline according to policy with everyone or you don't. I can't speak for any places where you have worked, but my coworkers and I have followed the policies consistantly with everyone..that's only fair. People fire themselves, the managers and HR don't need to do anything extra. You can't discipline one person and not another for the same incidents, that would be open season for a law suit and I would encourage anyone to file a complaint if they notice that they were being treated differenly than others.
You're doing it correctly. On any job I've ever had for the past 45 years, though, I have seen selective, inconsistent application of policies, especially attendance and tardiness. It just all depends on who you
are, how valuable you are to the boss. People in power do what they want. Rarely are they totally fair.
see? all things work together for good in the end.
Vito Andolini
1,451 Posts
No matter what the policy says, unless an employer wants to fire someone, they will find a way to help the worker care for the worker's kids' needs without being harrassed for using sick time or any other horse puckey reasons. I'm beginning to wonder if the OP's boss just wants to get rid of her. That is usually when policies are invoked.