California 1st in nation to require vaccines for health care workers

[hppygr8ful]

Quote

Today, the State of California is taking decisive action to combat the spread of COVID-19 and protect vulnerable communities – implementing a first-in-the-nation standard to require all state workers and workers in health care and high-risk congregate settings to either ...

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California Implements First-in-the-Nation Measures to Encourage State Employees and Health Care Workers to Get Vaccinated

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

I live in Florida.  Our governor is now in a big fight with school boards that want mask mandates for school children.  He's fighting the cruise industries for requiring all passengers to vaccinated.  So it's doubtful that this would happen in Florida.

I think it's been shown that vaccinated people can spread covid anyway, so if people want to put themselves at risk of possible extreme illness or death, for whatever reason I'm not concerned about them.  

I've had three unvaccinated coworkers get covid this month (one was hospitalized, one has been symptomatic for a couple of weeks, and one recovered from her symptoms and will be back in a couple of days) and it's really made a bad situation worse.  Many others throughout the hospital are out sick as well and this affects patient care and safety.  So from that standpoint I would advocate for mandatory vaccines for healthcare workers and others.

Florida has one in five of the cases of covid in the US, here ambulances coming to get you for an emergency can take up to five hours, people are waiting in ERs to be seen for many hours, people are spending their admission in the ER rooms because there are no rooms on the floor, or no nurses on the floors to take admissions.  It's a mess and I hope it burns through us soon.  

 

 

[hppygr8ful, ASN, RN, EMT-I]

1 hour ago, T-Bird78 said:

 Question is, do pts have the right to ask staff about their vaccination status, and do they have to answer?  I’m one of the few who are vaccinated, outside of our providers, so I’m either going to lose a lot of coworkers or they’ll be resentful toward our CEO. 

Anyone has the right to ask and anyone has a right to not reply to such Questions unless they are given sworn testimony.

As to the workplace: I'm in the same boat - I'm doing to lose some excellent coworkers.

Hppygr8ful

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

10 hours ago, missej2002 said:

If you look on the CDC website there actually have been some vaccines that were pulled because of harm.  These vaccines are common so of these recalls were as recent as 2013, some were minor like mispacking or mishandling, some were vaccines that cause the condition it was vaccinated against. It appears when polio vaccines were first started in 1955, they had over 250 cases of polio that was caused by the vaccine produced by one company, they recalled this vaccine.  

I am not an anti-vaxxer or a Trumper, but I have legitimate concerns about this vaccine, that has not been studied long enough.

I think that it should everyone's choice to be vaccinated not a mandate.  So I am glad that healthcare workers have the option to get vaccinated or weekly testing.  But eventually, everyone will be tested weekly, since both vaccinated and unvaccinated people are getting COVID-19.

Also, scientists and governments have been known to lie about everything and experiment on their own citizens, in the name of the greater good.

 

You're not an anti-vaxxer or a Trumper, yet you believe that there is a conspiracy between the scientists, the drug companies and the government to distribute a dangerous vaccine.  And so far, in your logic, everyone of the above is involved in this "experiment."  Eventually the market will determine who is vaccinated or not.  Those who aren't will be relegated to the bottom of the barrel jobs.  Do you really think that Rupert Murdoch would allow an unvaccinated employee to darken his front door?

[Horseshoe, BSN, RN]

14 hours ago, missej2002 said:

If you look on the CDC website there actually have been some vaccines that were pulled because of harm.  These vaccines are common so of these recalls were as recent as 2013, some were minor like mispacking or mishandling, some were vaccines that cause the condition it was vaccinated against. It appears when polio vaccines were first started in 1955, they had over 250 cases of polio that was caused by the vaccine produced by one company, they recalled this vaccine.  

I am not an anti-vaxxer or a Trumper, but I have legitimate concerns about this vaccine, that has not been studied long enough.

I think that it should everyone's choice to be vaccinated not a mandate.  So I am glad that healthcare workers have the option to get vaccinated or weekly testing.  But eventually, everyone will be tested weekly, since both vaccinated and unvaccinated people are getting COVID-19.

Also, scientists and governments have been known to lie about everything and experiment on their own citizens, in the name of the greater good.

 

You are correct that some vaccines have been pulled off the market because of a determination that they were unsafe. How many of these vaccines appeared safe during trials, safe for a year, and then suddenly began causing adverse effects not observed before in people a year or longer after taking them? How many of those vaccines were given to literally billions of people with seemingly low complication rates for over a year before they showed themselves to be unsafe?

[nursej22, MSN, RN]

I have questions for those who are demanding the "right" to reject vaccine mandates. And I ask, not to be snarky, but I am truly curious. 

If you are declining vaccination based on the idea that the COVID vaccines are experimental (false) and too new to know side effects (also false), will you also reject antivirals and monoclonal antibodies because they also have emergency use authorization and are new? 

Is this why you are willing to take a chemotherapy drug (HCQ) and dewormer, because they are old? 

[Soloist, LPN]

2 hours ago, nursej22 said:

I have questions for those who are demanding the "right" to reject vaccine mandates. And I ask, not to be snarky, but I am truly curious. 

If you are declining vaccination based on the idea that the COVID vaccines are experimental (false) and too new to know side effects (also false), will you also reject antivirals and monoclonal antibodies because they also have emergency use authorization and are new? 

Is this why you are willing to take a chemotherapy drug (HCQ) and dewormer, because they are old? 

I'm not personally convinced that HCQ or Ivermectin is a better choice then the recommended medications. That being said, I am opposed to the new Monoclonal antibodies for how they are produced and tested. 

I take a stance to not use medications for myself made after 1980. This is mostly due to the difficulty of determining if something was tested on a fetal cell line. It's pretty easy with stuff made in the last few years though. 

I can't apply my thoughts to others, and I actually recommended to a friend who has a fragile adult IDD child that maybe they look into a booster based on some data out of Israel... They know I object to it personally, but they don't. 

Newness side... it makes me uneasy, but I have no practical reason to object other then some nervousness that I keep to myself as its not my primary reason anyway. Honestly, if it weren't for the fetal cell testing, I would have tried getting into the trials.

As far as it goes though, if anyone could qualify for a religious objection I could... So far every mandate has a religious exemption... I'm hunting for other lines of work though. 

[missej2002]

On 8/10/2021 at 8:27 AM, subee said:

You're not an anti-vaxxer or a Trumper, yet you believe that there is a conspiracy between the scientists, the drug companies and the government to distribute a dangerous vaccine.  And so far, in your logic, everyone of the above is involved in this "experiment."  Eventually the market will determine who is vaccinated or not.  Those who aren't will be relegated to the bottom of the barrel jobs.  Do you really think that Rupert Murdoch would allow an unvaccinated employee to darken his front door?

I don’t believe that there are enough studies or time behind these vaccines. Most drugs and vaccines clinical trails a more than a year. We don’t know what the long term effects are going to be. I mean Johnson&Johnson can’t even get baby powder and sunscreen right, but I’m going to trust them with a new vaccine that was studied for less than a year. There are constantly recall on drugs that  were considered safe 10-20 years ago but over time and continue studies they’re not safe anymore, cause we know the long term consequences. Also there have been a lot of clinical trails that subjects have been lied to, examples Tuskegee Syphillis  study, Guatemalan STD study, agent orange experiments, and many more. Also let us not forget the natives were given blankets with smallpox. So if my lack of trusting humans and incomplete clinical trails make me a conspiracy theorist it’s just a hat I will gladly wear, hopefully I can put it over my tin foil hat. I don’t care what Rupert Murdoch’s racist, sexist pig allow his employees to do, and I don’t know why you assume I would care.

[missej2002]

3 hours ago, nursej22 said:

I have questions for those who are demanding the "right" to reject vaccine mandates. And I ask, not to be snarky, but I am truly curious. 

If you are declining vaccination based on the idea that the COVID vaccines are experimental (false) and too new to know side effects (also false), will you also reject antivirals and monoclonal antibodies because they also have emergency use authorization and are new? 

Is this why you are willing to take a chemotherapy drug (HCQ) and dewormer, because they are old? 

You are being snarky by putting words in parentheses, it's basically air quotes. But could you tell me the know long-term effects that could happen with any of these vaccines. You can't because we don't know. Every medication has an side effects, nothing is safe. But most drugs have been out long enough for us to choose if we would like to take those chances. 
Every medication, food, surgery, etc we choose if we would take that chance by taking that said treatment. But not giving people an opportunity to choose is wrong.  For those who want the covid19 vaccines I'm happy they are available for you, but those who don't want to take them, it's their right to refuse. 
Also what's next to be mandated, under the falsehood of the greater good, for the safety of people. 

[toomuchbaloney]

32 minutes ago, missej2002 said:

You are being snarky by putting words in parentheses, it's basically air quotes. But could you tell me the know long-term effects that could happen with any of these vaccines. You can't because we don't know. Every medication has an side effects, nothing is safe. But most drugs have been out long enough for us to choose if we would like to take those chances. 
Every medication, food, surgery, etc we choose if we would take that chance by taking that said treatment. But not giving people an opportunity to choose is wrong.  For those who want the covid19 vaccines I'm happy they are available for you, but those who don't want to take them, it's their right to refuse. 
Also what's next to be mandated, under the falsehood of the greater good, for the safety of people. 

Your paranoia and fears are unfounded.  You should stop spreading them.  It's dangerous. 

[nursej22, MSN, RN]

1 hour ago, missej2002 said:

You are being snarky by putting words in parentheses, it's basically air quotes. 

I put "rights" in quotation marks ( not parentheses) because I do not believe an employee has a right to refuse a condition of employment, unless it is illegal, or violates a religious belief. And the mandates in my area make an allowance for religion, and everyone has the option to test frequently instead. 

And as has been said, there is not vaccine available today with long term adverse effects that did not appear within the first 2 months. So yeah, I have small pox scar 60 years after I got it, but that showed up shortly after the immunization. 

Yes, some terrible things have been done in the past to minorities and to disabled people, emphasis on past. The  COVID vaccine development began early last year, while the lipid nano particle delivery system was developed long before this year. 

I remember the elation when vaccines finally became available, and when rates started to fall it seemed like the light at the end of the tunnel. But now with the seeming rise in vaccine refusal, I feel dread. 

Where, I wonder, was all the talk about vaccine refusal  when the former guy was in office, and tried to get vaccines approved before the safely data was in? 

 

[nursej22, MSN, RN]

1 hour ago, missej2002 said:

Also what's next to be mandated, under the falsehood of the greater good, for the safety of people. 

Seat belts? Air bags? Speed limits? Prohibiting driving under the influence? 

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

Every medication has side effects and this is true.  Every medication in trials has made people sick and even caused some people to die, even Tylenol. 

There are over a billion people in the world fully vaccinated.  So one has to look at the risks vs. benefits.  How are those people doing and what percentage are not doing well.  

No we don't have the luxury of knowing what the long term side effects are going to be other than looking at the long-term side effects of vaccines in general are which are generally no side effects.

We have six unvaccinated persons on the unit where I work.  Just one unit and five of them are out sick with covid.  All of the vaccinated persons are not sick, nor have any "long term side effects" if you can call nine months "long term" which is when it was rolled out to healthcare workers here last December, and the volunteers many months prior to that.   But of course we don't know what will happen years from now but again risks vs. benefits.

I'm beginning to think "you don't know what the long term side effects are" is a weak argument when you look at the big picture.

I believe in choice but it's hardship on me that five coworkers are out sick, one of whom has her entire family infected with two of them in the hospital,  and I'm tired of horrible ratios and overtime because the people are out with covid.  Plus the patients are getting crappy care while coming to the ER in droves.  

I know that people have to think of themselves and think "I'm not willing to take the side effects, I worry about the long term effects, I worry that it was rolled out too fast, I want to get pregnant" and every single argument.  But you have to make that decision knowing the hardships you are causing others and may cause yourself and those around you.  

Own it and you don't care.