California 1st in nation to require vaccines for health care workers

Nurses COVID

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Today, the State of California is taking decisive action to combat the spread of COVID-19 and protect vulnerable communities – implementing a first-in-the-nation standard to require all state workers and workers in health care and high-risk congregate settings to either ...

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California Implements First-in-the-Nation Measures to Encourage State Employees and Health Care Workers to Get Vaccinated

3 hours ago, hppygr8ful said:

So Are you a member of the Church of Christ Scientists or the Dutch Reformed Church because these are the only two Christian faiths that prohibit vaccination. Islam forbids it due to the vaccine containing pork derivitives, but the Pope in Rome has issued a Papel Inciclical stating that while each member of the faith should act according to conscience, The Catholic Church encourages vaccination to protect the common welfare of the people. 

Hppy

I am not a member of either of those two churches. I also point out the Islam comment depends heavily on which group of Muslims you are in. 

Show me where it says only these two Christian groups that secular researchers conclude are permitted to object to vaccines. Every time this comes up, some random article gets brought up showing how no religious group objects, this is silly... the Amish are well known to not vaccinate as frequently as others and some would entirely object altogether to vaccines. The Amish are Congregationalists which means every group is a little different. Mennonites would be similar with the various subgroup differences between the multiple conferences. 

I've also made it clear I don't object to vaccines, I object to the process used today that isn't necessary to prove effectivity and safety. There are other methods used. 

If the Pope sees that personal conscience matters, why can't you? Ultimately, I'm looking at other fields to work, so if someone like you chose to deny my beliefs and refuse to let me continue working with masking and testing, then I would quit and quietly go elsewhere. The courts have upheld the right to conviction without a church including the flu vaccine for healthcare workers. To clarify though, I attend a church with conservative Mennonites, and the leadership of the church would support my conviction without question due to the number of conversations I've had on it pre-covid. 

Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.
7 minutes ago, Soloist said:

I am not a member of either of those two churches. I also point out the Islam comment depends heavily on which group of Muslims you are in. 

Show me where it says only these two Christian groups that secular researchers conclude are permitted to object to vaccines. Every time this comes up, some random article gets brought up showing how no religious group objects, this is silly... the Amish are well known to not vaccinate as frequently as others and some would entirely object altogether to vaccines. The Amish are Congregationalists which means every group is a little different. Mennonites would be similar with the various subgroup differences between the multiple conferences. 

I've also made it clear I don't object to vaccines, I object to the process used today that isn't necessary to prove effectivity and safety. There are other methods used. 

If the Pope sees that personal conscience matters, why can't you? Ultimately, I'm looking at other fields to work, so if someone like you chose to deny my beliefs and refuse to let me continue working with masking and testing, then I would quit and quietly go elsewhere. The courts have upheld the right to conviction without a church including the flu vaccine for healthcare workers. To clarify though, I attend a church with conservative Mennonites, and the leadership of the church would support my conviction without question due to the number of conversations I've had on it pre-covid. 

That's not what the Pope said.  He said that people have a moral obligation to get vaccinated.  I have no idea what "I don't object to vaccines, I object to the process used today that isn't necessary to prove effectivity and safety".  Yes, you most certainly object to vaccines since they are safe and effective against Covid.  There are no 100% effective anythings in the real world.  Good luck with your job search.  I hope you find something you enjoy.

1 Votes
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
11 minutes ago, Soloist said:

I am not a member of either of those two churches. I also point out the Islam comment depends heavily on which group of Muslims you are in. 

Show me where it says only these two Christian groups that secular researchers conclude are permitted to object to vaccines. Every time this comes up, some random article gets brought up showing how no religious group objects, this is silly... the Amish are well known to not vaccinate as frequently as others and some would entirely object altogether to vaccines. The Amish are Congregationalists which means every group is a little different. Mennonites would be similar with the various subgroup differences between the multiple conferences. 

I've also made it clear I don't object to vaccines, I object to the process used today that isn't necessary to prove effectivity and safety. There are other methods used. 

If the Pope sees that personal conscience matters, why can't you? Ultimately, I'm looking at other fields to work, so if someone like you chose to deny my beliefs and refuse to let me continue working with masking and testing, then I would quit and quietly go elsewhere. The courts have upheld the right to conviction without a church including the flu vaccine for healthcare workers. To clarify though, I attend a church with conservative Mennonites, and the leadership of the church would support my conviction without question due to the number of conversations I've had on it pre-covid. 

Religious extremists refuse to vaccinate, not the vast majority of religions.  You've allowed unfounded fears to cloud your judgement.  Covid vaccines are safe and effective. 

2 Votes
2 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Religious extremists refuse to vaccinate, not the vast majority of religions.  You've allowed unfounded fears to cloud your judgement.  Covid vaccines are safe and effective. 

unfounded fears? which ones that I have actually expressed call into question the safety or effectivity of the vaccine? I've never made a claim that the vaccine isn't safe or isn't effective... based on data from Israel, maybe it needs a booster but that doesn't really change anything... The only thing I'm claiming is that all the covid vaccines have been tested on a fetal cell line which is quite accurate and reported by multiple sources. I do vaccinate my children and I am vaccinated (my convictions came after my military enlistment) I object to vaccines (and medication for personal use) produced or tested with fetal cells. Nothing else... 

2 hours ago, subee said:

That's not what the Pope said.  He said that people have a moral obligation to get vaccinated.  I have no idea what "I don't object to vaccines, I object to the process used today that isn't necessary to prove effectivity and safety".  Yes, you most certainly object to vaccines since they are safe and effective against Covid.  There are no 100% effective anythings in the real world. 

The comment about the Pope was based on what Hppy said, I really don't care what the Catholics do. 

You distort my position. I believe the covid vaccines are safe and effective. I believe they are unethical for myself to take given my stance of the use of fetal cell lines. This is well documented and I would be happy to point you to several research articles detailing the testing with HEK-293. I am not anti-vaccine nor do I believe in unprovable covid conspiracies. 

Thanks for wishing me well on my job hunt.

Specializes in A variety.

Educating people is one of the things nurses excel at.  Yet many of you are foregoing exercising that talent to belittle and shame those that have a different perspective about vaccination.  It would be much more refreshing to see you all exchange information supporting your position helping your fellow nurse rather focus on being argumentative.  Most of us have been spat, vomited, coughed, sneezed, peed, bled and pooped on to deserve not to be called "selfish".

Specializes in Psych, Addictions, SOL (Student of Life).
9 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

Educating people is one of the things nurses excel at.  Yet many of you are foregoing exercising that talent to belittle and shame those that have a different perspective about vaccination.  It would be much more refreshing to see you all exchange information supporting your position helping your fellow nurse rather focus on being argumentative.  Most of us have been spat, vomited, coughed, sneezed, peed, bled and pooped on to deserve not to be called "selfish".

This would be very cool but the segment of the population self identified as Anti-vax refuses to be taught anything that refutes a narrow world view, and it is blatantly selfish to not do anything to mitigate the human cost of this pandemic.

2 Votes
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
57 minutes ago, Soloist said:

unfounded fears? which ones that I have actually expressed call into question the safety or effectivity of the vaccine? I've never made a claim that the vaccine isn't safe or isn't effective... based on data from Israel, maybe it needs a booster but that doesn't really change anything... The only thing I'm claiming is that all the covid vaccines have been tested on a fetal cell line which is quite accurate and reported by multiple sources. I do vaccinate my children and I am vaccinated (my convictions came after my military enlistment) I object to vaccines (and medication for personal use) produced or tested with fetal cells. Nothing else... 

The comment about the Pope was based on what Hppy said, I really don't care what the Catholics do. 

You distort my position. I believe the covid vaccines are safe and effective. I believe they are unethical for myself to take given my stance of the use of fetal cell lines. This is well documented and I would be happy to point you to several research articles detailing the testing with HEK-293. I am not anti-vaccine nor do I believe in unprovable covid conspiracies. 

Thanks for wishing me well on my job hunt.

Your personal beliefs about the development of the vaccines and ethical consideration is an example of religious extremism.  It's foolish to refuse a safe and effective vaccine, in the middle of a pandemic, because of some decades old fetal cell line that is maintained for these purposes. Apparently, those beliefs and feelings about fetal cells are more important to you than participating in the public efforts to end the pandemic.  

1 Votes
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
37 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

Educating people is one of the things nurses excel at.  Yet many of you are foregoing exercising that talent to belittle and shame those that have a different perspective about vaccination.  It would be much more refreshing to see you all exchange information supporting your position helping your fellow nurse rather focus on being argumentative.  Most of us have been spat, vomited, coughed, sneezed, peed, bled and pooped on to deserve not to be called "selfish".

That's interesting.  What gave you the impression that any of the antivaxxers in these threads are seeking information rather than spreading disinformation? If a nurse isn't vaccinated and is making excuses for not vaccinating they are, indeed, selfish as well as choosing poorly.

1 Votes
Specializes in A variety.
57 minutes ago, hppygr8ful said:

This would be very cool but the segment of the population self identified as Anti-vax refuses to be taught anything that refutes a narrow world view, and it is blatantly selfish to not do anything to mitigate the human cost of this pandemic.

Some in this thread have expressed what appears to be concerns about a new vaccine and the history behind vaccines while supporting its use for those who are so inclined.  Perhaps I missed where they labeled themselves "anti vaxxers" it seems it has been thrust upon them by people with an opposing view.  If you think none of the participants are open to receiving information why waste your time arguing with them then? Calling them selfish and having narrow works views isn't going to make them suddenly change their minds. 

Specializes in A variety.
35 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

That's interesting.  What gave you the impression that any of the antivaxxers in these threads are seeking information rather than spreading disinformation? If a nurse isn't vaccinated and is making excuses for not vaccinating they are, indeed, selfish as well as choosing poorly.

How often does one of your patients "seek information" about diabetes and smoking cessation before you give them some education about it? Don't you realize by being angry and making presumptions only exacerbates the situation?  Having an attitude and being argumentative makes them more defensive and less receptive to the message.   What you label as "anti vaxxers" quite possibly are people with genuine fears and concerns.  Everyone here who is critical of an opposing view could type paragraphs about scientific evidence supporting their point of view rather than bantering back n forth with character assassination.  

Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
40 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

How often does one of your patients "seek information" about diabetes and smoking cessation before you give them some education about it? Don't you realize by being angry and making presumptions only exacerbates the situation?  Having an attitude and being argumentative makes them more defensive and less receptive to the message.   What you label as "anti vaxxers" quite possibly are people with genuine fears and concerns.  Everyone here who is critical of an opposing view could type paragraphs about scientific evidence supporting their point of view rather than bantering back n forth with character assassination.  

This isn't a clinic. No one can catch their patient's diabetes or emphysema or high blood pressure. The members in these threads are not our patients, they are supposed to be our health professional peers. Your analogy is not relevant. 

The antivaxxers aren't here looking for information to inform themselves.  They are here to spread their excuses and flawed reasons to not vaccinate. Why can't you discern that? 

I'm not trying to change their minds.  I'm not interested in their misinformation and poorly informed opinions about or interpretations of the data.  They are wrong and should vaccinate asap. I will continue to tell them that they are behaving in antisocial and unpatriotic ways in a national public health crisis. 

Their ignorance makes them feel argumentative.  The cognitive dissonance of their antivaxx stance leads to their defensiveness.  

 

1 Votes
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
1 hour ago, jive turkey said:

Some in this thread have expressed what appears to be concerns about a new vaccine and the history behind vaccines while supporting its use for those who are so inclined.  Perhaps I missed where they labeled themselves "anti vaxxers" it seems it has been thrust upon them by people with an opposing view.  If you think none of the participants are open to receiving information why waste your time arguing with them then? Calling them selfish and having narrow works views isn't going to make them suddenly change their minds. 

I don't care if they label themselves antivaxx...we are giving them that label because they refuse to vaccinate and make fearful or flawed excuses for that choice.  I don't care to change their minds.

I'm currently assuming that their ignorance will only be influenced by personal illness or suffering from covid given that they are generally impervious to facts, data, or reasoning. 

 

1 Votes
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