California 1st in nation to require vaccines for health care workers

[hppygr8ful]

Quote

Today, the State of California is taking decisive action to combat the spread of COVID-19 and protect vulnerable communities – implementing a first-in-the-nation standard to require all state workers and workers in health care and high-risk congregate settings to either ...

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California Implements First-in-the-Nation Measures to Encourage State Employees and Health Care Workers to Get Vaccinated

[hppygr8ful, ASN, RN, EMT-I]

10 hours ago, jive turkey said:

 

You would have better success responding to "anti vaxxers" with facts and data in your posts.  Even if you don't convince the "anti vaxxer", you may persuade the others you are concerned read these posts for information. Name calling and venting may not sway the doubtful.  

 

 

Again this would be great but the people who have this opposing view are simply not interested in being educated by anything we say. They appear to get their info from Tin Hat websites such as NaturalNews.com. The theories on this site are at first amusing and on reflection terrifying. 

Hppy

[Horseshoe, BSN, RN]

9 hours ago, jive turkey said:

My posts were intended to encourage balanced discussion between people with opposing views.  Those who are pro and contra vaccine would benefit from respectfully sharing information, perspectives, and learning from each other leading to an informed decision.  

 

I'm going to put "vaccine hesitant" and "anti-vaxxers" into 2 distinct categories. There is no "balanced discussion" possible between evidence based vaccine proponents and antivaxxers. This is not one of those situations where "both sides" have equally legitimate points of view. The science lies squarely on the side of vaccines, which have saved literally billions of lives over the past century.

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

17 hours ago, jive turkey said:

Some in this thread have expressed what appears to be concerns about a new vaccine and the history behind vaccines while supporting its use for those who are so inclined.  Perhaps I missed where they labeled themselves "anti vaxxers" it seems it has been thrust upon them by people with an opposing view.  If you think none of the participants are open to receiving information why waste your time arguing with them then? Calling them selfish and having narrow works views isn't going to make them suddenly change their minds. 

4.51 billion vaccines given.  How long are these doubters going to wait?  I expect confusion from people who can't read the hard stuff but these are nurses refusing.  I know that I'm not participating in the life I had before because I don't want close contact with someone unvaccinated.  Doctors are 98% vaccinated.  The unvaccinated nurses at this point, are just embarrassing as well as frustrating.

[jive turkey]

6 hours ago, macawake said:

I honestly think that you are just arguing semantics. You wrote a series of posts, sharing your opinion that you think some posters are belittling and shaming other posters with ”different perspectives”, that you thought that these posters have an attitude, are being argumentative and engage in name calling. You were quite obviously being critical of posters.

 

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 It's quite amazing that you and a couple others have counter arguments for the idea of practicing respectful communication. 

The approach I see from many people supporting vaccines is reminiscent of juveniles on a school yard calling someone a scardy cat as a means to influence their choices. 

I share your frustration with people who are against vaccines based on political affiliation or other grounds that aren't evidence based. There are those who have legitimate and genuine concerns. You'd be wise to recognize that. This is why I've been challenging supporters not to assimilate their behavior by resorting to rudimentary arguments.  Informed medical professionals are above and more capable than that.  

I've yet to understand why you have a beef with that and wish to argue to the contrary.  

[toomuchbaloney]

2 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

 It's quite amazing that you and a couple others have counter arguments for the idea of practicing respectful communication. 

The approach I see from many people supporting vaccines is reminiscent of juveniles on a school yard calling someone a scardy cat as a means to influence their choices. 

I share your frustration with people who are against vaccines based on political affiliation or other grounds that aren't evidence based. There are those who have legitimate and genuine concerns. You'd be wise to recognize that. This is why I've been challenging supporters not to assimilate their behavior by resorting to rudimentary arguments.  Informed medical professionals are above and more capable than that.  

I've yet to understand why you have a beef with that and wish to argue to the contrary.  

You'd be wise to recognize that the folks coming here to tell everyone why they aren't vaccinating aren't voicing legitimate concerns.  They are here to spread covid fears and poorly sourced concerns while hoping to find other similarly misguided individuals.  

I haven't really noticed you providing any facts or evidence to counter their dangerous remarks. 

[macawake, MSN]

53 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

The approach I see from many people supporting vaccines is reminiscent of juveniles on a school yard calling someone a scardy cat as a means to influence their choices. 

I can see why you might think the strategy is ill-advised if you think I’m trying to change their minds about the vaccines. That’s not my goal at all.

With a certain kind of poster, that’s simply not going to happen. But you are more than welcome to address the next ten new members who barge in here and claim that the vaccines are only EUA, we don’t have any long-term safety data, and that the pandemic isn’t half as bad (or even a tenth as bad) as the evil MSM make it out to be. And that everyone they know have had super severe side effects from the vaccines, that the mRNA stuff is super scary and have killed at least a gazillion people because a bunch of tinfoil hat charlatans on the interwebs have told them so and they are certainly never, ever going to get vaccinated. They would rather move to Jupiter, but NO vaccine. The following is completely snark free.. Please take the time and address the next ten in the way that you suggest we all should, and we will see how it develops. I am kind of curious to see the result. I’ll be here rooting for you ??
 

53 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

I share your frustration with people who are against vaccines based on political affiliation or other grounds that aren't evidence based. There are those who have legitimate and genuine concerns. You'd be wise to recognize that.

I’m sure the concerns can be genuinely felt, but legitimate? The only legitimate concern I can think of is a medical contraindication. Serious question, in your opinion what legitimate concern can one have about the vaccine that is larger or more serious than the risks of getting a Covid-19 infection? 

[jive turkey]

25 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

You'd be wise to recognize that the folks coming here to tell everyone why they aren't vaccinating aren't voicing legitimate concerns.  They are here to spread covid fears and poorly sourced concerns while hoping to find other similarly misguided individuals.  

I haven't really noticed you providing any facts or evidence to counter their dangerous remarks. 

One person provided factual evidence about how COVID vaccines were developed and their objection to that process.  They have a problem with using fetal cells from aborted babies.  You don't.  Just because you don't doesn't mean their concern is illegitimate. It means you disagree with them and have a different perspective.  That's fair and merits an intelectual discussion rather than insults and name calling.  

The reason I have not quoted statistics is because my original post had nothing to do with proving anybody right or wrong about the COVID vaccine's effectiveness. I'm not sure how many different ways I can help you and some others understand my concern in this particular thread is that people aren't being open minded, having their arguments clouded by anger and frustration.  

[toomuchbaloney]

12 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

One person provided factual evidence about how COVID vaccines were developed and their objection to that process.  They have a problem with using fetal cells from aborted babies.  You don't.  Just because you don't doesn't mean their concern is illegitimate. It means you disagree with them and have a different perspective.  That's fair and merits an intelectual discussion rather than insults and name calling.  

The reason I have not quoted statistics is because my original post had nothing to do with proving anybody right or wrong about the COVID vaccine's effectiveness. I'm not sure how many different ways I can help you and some others understand my concern in this particular thread is that people aren't being open minded, having their arguments clouded by anger and frustration.  

Are you kidding me? Concern about fetal cells that are maintained for precisely this purpose is not a legitimate concern.  Are you trying to redefine that word (legitimate) to make their concerns appear less crazy? 

I don't need any help understanding what you are doing here, you are the one who seems confused. You are upset by health professionals speaking to purveyors of covid misinformation and fear mongering in ways that are intolerant and dismissive.  Oh well.  You should probably reach out to those victims and try to change their minds about vaccinating while I ridicule their lack of critical thought or science based reasoning as they spread dangerous nonsense. 

[macawake, MSN]

39 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

The reason I have not quoted statistics is because my original post had nothing to do with proving anybody right or wrong about the COVID vaccine's effectiveness. I'm not sure how many different ways I can help you and some others understand my concern in this particular thread is that people aren't being open minded, having their arguments clouded by anger and frustration.  

 

1 hour ago, jive turkey said:

I've yet to understand why you have a beef with that and wish to argue to the contrary.  

Okay, I’m going to try to explain what my ?  is with your posts. You have told us over and over again how you think that we should be conducting ourselves but you are not doing ANYTHING to help counter harmful disinformation.

My judgement isn’t clouded by anger or frustration. I am angry with people who share lies. Lies that we know have gotten people killed. I shouldn’t have to remind you about what’s happening in your country right now. People in hospitals, on their deathbeds, begging to get vaccinated. Yes, I am angry at the lies that have lead these people to not vaccinate and who are now paying the ultimate price, but you should know that when posting I choose my words deliberately and dispassionately.

You don’t seem capable of understanding that my goal isn’t the same as your goal. And what I feel is that rather than telling me or TMB how to post, you might consider doing as I already suggested instead. Lead by example. 

[Thanksforthedonuts, BSN, RN]

I agree that this vaccine is highly politicized. But conservatives are not the only one at fault for it. Dr. Fauci and local healthcare officials have given off very inconsistent messaging and the confidence of the public falls with each misstep. I do not agree with mandates in general. We need to educate and help people make informed decisions. Mandating someone (adults especially) is not the way to gain their trust or confidence. The CDC is very much partial to their own political ties and it shows. The professionalism of many healthcare professionals has hit the floor. 
 

I personally do not think I need to be forced to get a vaccine I do not want since I am not in a high risk group for developing *serious disease* and already have natural immunity.  Data that the vaccine limits the spread is still unconvincing. 
 

I fully disagree that children need to be vaccinated. BUT if someone wants it, then have at it. I’ll gladly administer it to anyone who so desires and I encourage it in high risk populations. However, taking something already so unprofessional politicized and where a good portion if the population is rightfully apprehensive about and FORCING them to get it or risk their livelihood for is quite simply medical coercion. 

[jive turkey]

18 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Are you kidding me? Concern about fetal cells that are maintained for precisely this purpose is not a legitimate concern.  Are you trying to redefine that word (legitimate) to make their concerns appear less crazy? 

I don't need any help understanding what you are doing here, you are the one who seems confused. You are upset by health professionals speaking to purveyors of covid misinformation and fear mongering in ways that are intolerant and dismissive.  Oh well.  You should probably reach out to those victims and try to change their minds about vaccinating while I ridicule their lack of critical thought or science based reasoning as they spread dangerous nonsense. 

I am open minded enough to COGNITIVELY understand why someone who has strong beliefs about abortion would further object to using tissue from the electively aborted would be an issue for them.  That doesn't mean I agree with them or condone their decision.  I wouldn't be so closed minded as to regard them as selfish or crazy.  

Your reaction is more understandable for people who misinform and mislead people against vaccines based on conspiracy theories, political affiliation, superstitions and other ideas not based on concrete facts.

I don't think you realize I'm more on your side than you may believe.  What troubles me is I'm willing to bet you're a very smart and talented person.  When I see that intelligence and talent deferred to simply insult, shame, and label people it genuinely makes me sad and fearful you're doing more harm than good.

 

[toomuchbaloney]

7 minutes ago, Thanksforthedonuts said:

I agree that this vaccine is highly politicized. But conservatives are not the only one at fault for it. Dr. Fauci and local healthcare officials have given off very inconsistent messaging and the confidence of the public falls with each misstep. I do not agree with mandates in general. We need to educate and help people make informed decisions. Mandating someone (adults especially) is not the way to gain their trust or confidence. The CDC is very much partial to their own political ties and it shows. The professionalism of many healthcare professionals has hit the floor. 
 

I personally do not think I need to be forced to get a vaccine I do not want since I am not in a high risk group for developing *serious disease* and already have natural immunity.  Data that the vaccine limits the spread is still unconvincing. 
 

I fully disagree that children need to be vaccinated. BUT if someone wants it, then have at it. I’ll gladly administer it to anyone who so desires and I encourage it in high risk populations. However, taking something already so unprofessional politicized and where a good portion if the population is rightfully apprehensive about and FORCING them to get it or risk their livelihood for is quite simply medical coercion. 

Your unfounded distrust of the accountable experts is noted.  

The vaccines are safe and effective.  You should vaccinate and stop sharing misinformation that might create hesitancy for others, it's irresponsible.