At what point can mandates go too far?

Nurses COVID

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Is there a point when vaccine/mask mandates can go to far? Can mandates never go too far?

Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
24 minutes ago, Horseshoe said:

I have worked 8 hour surgeries with no breaks. MANY times. And it doesn't need to be without breaks-you work 8-12 hours at a time for a decade, you should be very ill after 10 years of doing it. But we aren't because that is complete rubbish.

Let's not even talk about health professionals who work in burn centers...

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4 hours ago, Jeckrn1 said:

if mask mandates really work why does Florida only have a rate 3 more people per 100 have Covid then California. Florida is an open state which does not restrict any thing or require mask where California has a struck mask mandate and shut down the state. 
 

I am an OR nurse and since when is your mask on for your whole shift and has no gaps so that argument does not hold water either. 
 

sorry you have no “ammo” with your closed mind. 
 

Can you show any studies that show anything but a properly worn N95 mask stop a airborne virus?

 

Question.

Two identical events, let's say a concert.

Event A- all wearing surgical or commercially available masks.

Even B- no masks.

You have the opportunity to bet $10,000 on which event transmits more coveid.  Me, I am betting on the one with no masks.  How about you?  taking the bet?

Any thoughts on why so little flu was transmitted this year?

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A mask mandate is only so good as the compliance to the mandate. If infected Joe Blow wears it at the grocery store because he has no choice, but continues to socialize with others at private homes or venues with poor enforcement, or puts it under his nose the minute the greeter at the grocery store is out of sight, etc., then sure, the mask mandate will not reduce transmission at the rate it otherwise could.

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Specializes in Critical Care.
5 hours ago, Jeckrn1 said:

When someone has a closed mind and says someone is a joke because they use their critical thinking skills. 
 

if mask mandates really work why does Florida only have a rate 3 more people per 100 have Covid then California. Florida is an open state which does not restrict any thing or require mask where California has a struck mask mandate and shut down the state. 
 

I am an OR nurse and since when is your mask on for your whole shift and has no gaps so that argument does not hold water either. 
 

sorry you have no “ammo” with your closed mind. 
 

Can you show any studies that show anything but a properly worn N95 mask stop a airborne virus?

Coronavirus such as Covid only remain viable when moist, they travel in respiratory secretions which can vary widely in size, including above and below the somewhat arbitrary line between "droplet" size and "airborne" size.

But what we do know with certainty is that surgical / procedure and other basic masks are an effective firm of source control.  This means they catch a significant amount of expelled respiratory secretions, that's the same reason why we wear them in the OR.

It's certainly reasonable to ask whether they catch enough secretions to reduce transmission, so if you're looking for evidence it might help to narrow it down.  Are you looking for large population case controlled studies?  Laboratory controlled studies?  There's no shortage of evidence if you're willing to look.

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Specializes in Geriatrics.

Refusing to care for clients based on their vaccination status is too far. 
 

just like refusing to care for HIV positive patients.

or non compliant diabetics. Just saying.

I have my vaccine, but you’re not going to convince someone living under a rock that the government isn’t trying to track them with microchips. I keep having these conversations and it’s exhausting. The public believes what it wants to. No matter how stupid their ideology is.

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Specializes in Critical Care.
19 hours ago, vintagegal said:

Refusing to care for clients based on their vaccination status is too far. 
 

just like refusing to care for HIV positive patients.

or non compliant diabetics. Just saying.

I have my vaccine, but you’re not going to convince someone living under a rock that the government isn’t trying to track them with microchips. I keep having these conversations and it’s exhausting. The public believes what it wants to. No matter how stupid their ideology is.

Diabetes is not transmissible by sitting next to someone in a waiting room, Covid is.

HIV is not transmissible by sitting next to someone is a waiting room, Covid is.

This is an example what we're talkingT about.  If you disagree with this physician and/or think it's acceptable to work in healthcare an be unvaccinated then you are a horrible person, there's no debatable gray area there.

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Specializes in Geriatrics, Dialysis.
19 hours ago, vintagegal said:

Refusing to care for clients based on their vaccination status is too far. 
 

just like refusing to care for HIV positive patients.

or non compliant diabetics. Just saying.

I have my vaccine, but you’re not going to convince someone living under a rock that the government isn’t trying to track them with microchips. I keep having these conversations and it’s exhausting. The public believes what it wants to. No matter how stupid their ideology is.

 

17 hours ago, MunoRN said:

Diabetes is not transmissible by sitting next to someone in a waiting room, Covid is.

HIV is not transmissible by sitting next to someone is a waiting room, Covid is.

This is an example what we're talkingT about.  If you disagree with this physician and/or think it's acceptable to work in healthcare an be unvaccinated then you are a horrible person, there's no debatable gray area there.

Well to her defense when HIV came around healthcare workers were terrified of it as we weren't sure exactly how easy it was to transmit. Granted we knew it wasn't airborne but nobody knew if it could be transmitted by casual contact or not. Many nurses and techs refused to care for HIV patients in it's early days. I was one of the few that volunteered to care for our first AIDS patients in the SNF. 

She's also not wrong about out total inability to change the minds of people determined that the whole thing is some kind of hoax or that the vaccines are some government tool used to track us. There's no convincing the truly delusional and there are sadly a lot of them out there. These people are very vocal about their misguided beliefs and are somehow managing to recruit others to their way of thinking. 

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Specializes in oncology.
3 hours ago, kbrn2002 said:

Many nurses and techs refused to care for HIV patients in it's early days

And at my institution, they were fired.

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Quote

Diabetes is not transmissible by sitting next to someone in a waiting room, Covid is.

HIV is not transmissible by sitting next to someone is a waiting room, Covid is.

Agree completely. A lot of the stuff being posted here about "what about such and such? You gonna' turn them away?"

They are a)not contagious and b) not overwhelming our hospital systems and preventing people with other conditions from accessing care.

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Specializes in A variety.
On 9/7/2021 at 11:40 PM, MunoRN said:

 you disagree with this physician and/or think it's acceptable to work in healthcare an be unvaccinated then you are a horrible person, there's no debatable gray area there.

  Your comment is prejudiced.  

On 9/8/2021 at 12:09 PM, Horseshoe said:

 

Agree completely. A lot of the stuff being posted here about "what about such and such? You gonna' turn them away?"

They are a)not contagious and b) not overwhelming our hospital systems and preventing people with other conditions from accessing care.

a) Some of the aforementioned diseases are indeed contagious.  Not by a droplet but by behavior.  There's definitely a difference in the speed of contagion but it's not accurate to say they're not contagious.

b) You are certainly correct COVID has overwhelmed the hospitals.  We can't deny the other diseases have too.  They have for a long time.    

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Specializes in A variety.
On 8/27/2021 at 5:37 AM, DesiDani said:

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Is there a point when vaccine/mask mandates can go to far? Can mandates never go too far?

We are already there.  We have employers mandating vaccination without considering one's immunity or support for those who may suffer an injury from an adverse reaction.  I think that goes too far.

 

I'm undecided if the following "goes too far". Vaccine passport laws are showing up.  Hawaii is doing it.  Fortunately they allow a negative test in lieu of proof of vaccination.  I don't have much problem with the latter for non-essential venues.  However consideration should be given to how available tests are for someone to do them every 48hrs.  I have concerns about passports.  I appreciate what it tries to accomplish.  I am concerned it will set a precedent for abuse in the future for things unrelated to COVID.  

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Specializes in ER, HH, CTICU, corrections, cardiology, hospice.

When they mandate some mark to indicate “vaccine” status. When movement is restricted due to “vaccine” status. When medical treatment is withheld due to “vaccine” status, even for non-kung flu issues. When people are segregated based on “vaccine” status. When people are euthanized based on “vaccine” status. Think I’m being hyperbolic? Remember when a “vaccine” mandate was considered hyperbolic conspiracy theory, I do.

 

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