At what point can mandates go too far?

Nurses COVID

Updated:   Published

when-mask-mandate-going-to-far.jpg.caf6f2d6d31e798869221e0baf091319.jpg

Is there a point when vaccine/mask mandates can go to far? Can mandates never go too far?

On 9/3/2021 at 3:32 PM, kbrn2002 said:

No whining here. I 100% agree. What is the point of a mask mandate/face covering when the product used is pretty much useless. Putting a bandana over your face might make you look like a western movie cowboy but it doesn't do a lot to prevent viral spread. 

I agree. Won't be shocked if cloth face mask start getting banned in places. Most the ones I have seen sold in stores may look cute, but they don't cover well and the material used isn't great either. Some airlines won't let you wear the cloth ones. My doctors office won't either. 

Specializes in Operating room, ER, Home Health.

Until we go to a 100% N95 mask worn correctly mandate this mask mandate is just like the TSA questions at the airport. They are just to make you feel better by having the appearance that the government is doing something. 


Surgical mask only have a 15% effective rate if there is even a small gap and a N95 is 58% effective with a small gap. 

Air is like water and will follow the path of least resistance. 
 

1 hour ago, Jeckrn1 said:

Until we go to a 100% N95 mask worn correctly mandate this mask mandate is just like the TSA questions at the airport. They are just to make you feel better by having the appearance that the government is doing something. 


Surgical mask only have a 15% effective rate if there is even a small gap and a N95 is 58% effective with a small gap. 

Air is like water and will follow the path of least resistance. 
 

Posts like yours are an embarrassment on a nursing forum. 15% effective at doing what exactly? And the same goes for the 58%. Effective at filtering what? At what distance? Under which conditions? Claims like yours not supported by a source are useless. Demonstrates clearly how scientific your approach is. Not. If you want to throw numbers around, include a source that supports your claim. That way we can judge the quality of the study and what it actually is that it attempts to measure.

No one that I’m aware of, and certainly not I, have claimed that masks alone is a miracle solution when it comes to preventing transmission. It’s one of many different strategies we can implement to reduce transmission. With droplet transmission it is clear that the mask will catch some of it. All of it? Most likely not. But does any nurse here think that viral load doesn’t matter? If would preferrably not be anywhere close to an infected person, but if I was I’d rather they wore a mask that catches some of their respiratory droplets when the person talks or coughs, than be sprayed with their saliva. 

3 Votes
On 8/27/2021 at 2:37 PM, DesiDani said:

Is there a point when vaccine/mask mandates can go to far? Can mandates never go too far?

To me, your question is a bit like ”how long is a piece of string?”

The question you ask is not very well defined. Is there a single person here who doesn’t believe that mandates could go too far? Of course they can. However what constitutes ”too far” is likely to differ from person to person.
 

How many would think that a mandate that says that everyone has to wear a mask, and if they they leave their house or even look out their windows without one on, they will be shot on sight is acceptable. Any takers? 

1 Votes
Specializes in Operating room, ER, Home Health.
1 hour ago, macawake said:

Posts like yours are an embarrassment on a nursing forum. 15% effective at doing what exactly? And the same goes for the 58%. Effective at filtering what? At what distance? Under which conditions? Claims like yours not supported by a source are useless. Demonstrates clearly how scientific your approach is. Not. If you want to throw numbers around, include a source that supports your claim. That way we can judge the quality of the study and what it actually is that it attempts to measure.

No one that I’m aware of, and certainly not I, have claimed that masks alone is a miracle solution when it comes to preventing transmission. It’s one of many different strategies we can implement to reduce transmission. With droplet transmission it is clear that the mask will catch some of it. All of it? Most likely not. But does any nurse here think that viral load doesn’t matter? If would preferrably not be anywhere close to an infected person, but if I was I’d rather they wore a mask that catches some of their respiratory droplets when the person talks or coughs, than be sprayed with their saliva. 

Typical holier than thou response. Here is the article 

Facemasks in the COVID-19 era: A health hypothesis
Baruch Vainshelboim *
Cardiology Division, Veterans Affairs Palo Alto Health Care System/Stanford University, Palo Alto, CA, United States

We all know that only N95 mask work against an airborne virus. 

 

37 minutes ago, Jeckrn1 said:

Typical holier than thou response. Here is the article 

Facemasks in the COVID-19 era: A health hypothesis
Baruch Vainshelboim *
Cardiology Division, Veterans Affairs Palo Alto Health Care System/Stanford University, Palo Alto, CA, United States

We all know that only N95 mask work against an airborne virus. 

 

Is this the one?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7680614/
 

Did you happen to notice that it says..

RETRACTED

RETRACTED 

RETRACTED

RETRACTED

RETRACTED

on every single page? 

 

I’ve only read the ”conclusion” and I can’t say that I’m overly surprised it’s been retracted ?

One wonders how a single surgeon or OR nurse manages to stay alive. Not to mention healthcare staff who work with Infectious Diseases. Good grief. What an article. 

I’ll look at the rest of it at a later point in time after I down a couple of painkillers as prophylaxis for the headache I’m sure will develop.. 

 

You should READ THIS:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8114149/
 



 

 

Seriously, if you’re unhappy about my ”holier than thou” attitude, you should really stop giving me so much ammo. You desperately need to learn how to vet your sources and look at research critically. This was one of the most flagrantly poor ”academic” endeavours I’ve seen in a good while. Did you notice the number of reasons it was retracted? 

4 Votes
1 hour ago, macawake said:

Is this the one?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7680614/
 

Did you happen to notice that it says..

RETRACTED

RETRACTED 

RETRACTED

RETRACTED

RETRACTED

on every single page? 

 

I’ve only read the ”conclusion” and I can’t say that I’m overly surprised it’s been retracted ?

One wonders how a single surgeon or OR nurse manages to stay alive. Not to mention healthcare staff who work with Infectious Diseases. Good grief. What an article. 

I’ll look at the rest of it at a later point in time after I down a couple of painkillers as prophylaxis for the headache I’m sure will develop.. 

 

You should READ THIS:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8114149/
 



 

 

Seriously, if you’re unhappy about my ”holier than thou” attitude, you should really stop giving me so much ammo. You desperately need to learn how to vet your sources and look at research critically. This was one of the most flagrantly poor ”academic” endeavours I’ve seen in a good while. Did you notice the number of reasons it was retracted? 

As soon as I saw under Potential Health Consequences of Wearing Masks:

Quote

• Increased predisposition for viral and infection illnesses

• Headaches

• Anxiety

• Depression

• Hypertension

• Cardiovascular disease

• Cancer

• Diabetes

• Alzheimer disease

• Exacerbation of existing conditions and diseases

• Accelerated aging process

• Health deterioration

• Premature mortality

I knew I was doomed! In the OR, we wear masks 8-12 hours a day, and most of us have been doing this for at least a decade or more. Doctors and nurses in ORs, procedure rooms, ID units, transplant units, cancer units, burn units, etc. all over the world have been dropping like flies and wandering around in circles with Alzheimer's disease.

Oh wait...

3 Votes
Specializes in Operating room, ER, Home Health.

When someone has a closed mind and says someone is a joke because they use their critical thinking skills. 
 

if mask mandates really work why does Florida only have a rate 3 more people per 100 have Covid then California. Florida is an open state which does not restrict any thing or require mask where California has a struck mask mandate and shut down the state. 
 

I am an OR nurse and since when is your mask on for your whole shift and has no gaps so that argument does not hold water either. 
 

sorry you have no “ammo” with your closed mind. 
 

Can you show any studies that show anything but a properly worn N95 mask stop a airborne virus?

Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
6 minutes ago, Jeckrn1 said:

When someone has a closed mind and says someone is a joke because they use their critical thinking skills. 
 

if mask mandates really work why does Florida only have a rate 3 more people per 100 have Covid then California. Florida is an open state which does not restrict any thing or require mask where California has a struck mask mandate and shut down the state. 
 

I am an OR nurse and since when is your mask on for your whole shift and has no gaps so that argument does not hold water either. 
 

sorry you have no “ammo” with your closed mind. 
 

Can you show any studies that show anything but a properly worn N95 mask stop a airborne virus?

https://www.khi.org/policy/article/CDC-report

https://www.CDC.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6947e2.htm

That was really easy to discover because I had read the MMWR when it was first published.  Maybe you aren't looking for information in the correct places. Or maybe you don't trust the CDC.  

1 Votes
1 hour ago, Horseshoe said:

As soon as I saw under Potential Health Consequences of Wearing Masks:

I knew I was doomed! In the OR, we wear masks 8-12 hours a day, and most of us have been doing this for at least a decade or more. Doctors and nurses in ORs, procedure rooms, ID units, transplant units, cancer units, burn units, etc. all over the world have been dropping like flies and wandering around in circles with Alzheimer's disease.

Oh wait...

You should really look at Table 1 as well ? It seems that wearing a surgical mask also ”accelerates the aging process”. You’d think that activating the fight or flight response, giving you cancer and Alzheimers, causing fear, insomnia and cardiovascular disease was bad enough.. But it ages you prematurely as well ?

I’m a ?+ ? = patient ? nurse, spend my shifts in an OR and I wear ? all the time, and all I can do is shake my head in disbelief at the profound idiocy of this article. Even if one hasn’t checked the references in this article to see if they actually support what the author says they say (and several that I checked did not), it boggles the mind that any rational person would take that conclusion at face value. Unbelievable.

 

2 Votes
1 hour ago, Jeckrn1 said:

When someone has a closed mind and says someone is a joke because they use their critical thinking skills. 
 

sorry you have no “ammo” with your closed mind. 

You got owned. I’m not unsympathetic to the fact that that is a bit embarrassing. But the way to personal growth is to learn from it and vow to do better next time, not doubling down on the silliness and deflect with unrelated questions and scenarios. Seriously dude, did you even read the entire article you linked and look at the premises and results critically, or did you just pick it because it’s been making the rounds on social media that you read and its conclusion fit your already made up mind? Confirmation bias is a real thing.

 

1 hour ago, Jeckrn1 said:

I am an OR nurse and since when is your mask on for your whole shift and has no gaps so that argument does not hold water either. 

I noticed that it says that you’re an OR nurse. That made me even more impressed by the power of confirmation bias and how it can absolutely obliterate the capacity to critically think. 
 

Why do you think that the fact that there are gaps in the surgical masks we wear is relevant?

Were the studies in your article on ”hermetically sealed” versions of surgical masks? I think you are just trying to deflect from the topic at hand.

1 hour ago, Jeckrn1 said:

Can you show any studies that show anything but a properly worn N95 mask stop a airborne virus?

Has anyone made the claim that something other than a properly worn N95 mask can stop an airborne virus? Why do we need to show you studies that show something we haven’t claimed?

I’ve got a question for you. As an OR nurse do you think that a surgical mask offers your patients any protection? Do they do anything to stop the droplets you might inadvertently ”expel” from your nose and mouth? 

 

1 hour ago, Jeckrn1 said:

if mask mandates really work why does Florida only have 3 more people per 100 have Covid then California. Florida is an open state which does not restrict any thing or require mask where California has a struck mask mandate and shut down the state. 

Jeckrn, we were talking about the flawed article you linked that made all sorts of unverified and frankly ridiculous claims about the terrible dangers face masks pose. We weren’t discussing if mask mandates work. Stop deflecting. 

1 Votes
2 hours ago, Jeckrn1 said:

I am an OR nurse and since when is your mask on for your whole shift and has no gaps so that argument does not hold water either. 

I have worked 8 hour surgeries with no breaks. MANY times. And it doesn't need to be without breaks-you work 8-12 hours at a time for a decade, you should be very ill after 10 years of doing it. But we aren't because that is complete rubbish.

2 Votes
+ Add a Comment