We were discussing the Disneryland measles outbreak at work, and I was appalled to find some of my co-workers refuse to vaccinate their kids. They (grudgingly) receive the vaccines they need to remain employed, but doubt their safety/necessity for their kids.
I must say, I am absolutley stunned. How can one be a nurse and deny science?
As a nurse, you should darn well know what the scientific method entails and what phrases such as "evidence based" and "peer reviewed" mean.
I have to say, I have lost most of my respect for the nurses and mistrust their judgement; after all, if they deny science, on what premise are they basing their practices?
Specializes in Nurse Leader specializing in Labor & Delivery.
especially after several of those kids will be in the PICU or have encephalitis because of the measles.
The rate of encephalitis as a complication of measles is about 1 in 1,000, so I doubt "several" will be hospitalized for encephalitis. Pneumonia is 1 in 20, but most cases of pneumonia would not require a PICU stay.
You clearly don't know many anti-vaccine people, if that's what you think. No, they would be more likely to coordinate a measles party.
Some may coordinate measles parties, but others choose to vaccinate. Every time there is an outbreak in a community the pediatricians experience a run on vaccines available. What direction most take is debatable, but there is no doubt that this and previous outbreaks have caused increased appointments at pediatricians offices in areas where the outbreaks occur for vaccinations.
I've said it before and will say it again . . . I LOVE Doc Bastard. He rips apart an article that brought up every anti-vax argument mentioned in this thread by those who, I guess, thought were being the innovative thinkers amongst us. Long blog but worth it, IMO.
The rate of encephalitis as a complication of measles is about 1 in 1,000, so I doubt "several" will be hospitalized for encephalitis. Pneumonia is 1 in 20, but most cases of pneumonia would not require a PICU stay.
That's why I said OR...I know it's small, but it happens-word syntax and the like.
You clearly don't know many anti-vaccine people, if that's what you think. No, they would be more likely to coordinate a measles party.
Sorry, i guess i wasn't very clear. I was speaking more so about the bandwagon jumpers more so than the Jenny McCarthy's of the bunch.
I see these people all the time, as have many of my fellow immunization nurses. It does happen, and i'm actually glad some of these people come to their senses, even if it is out of fear.
Actually, pediatricians in California have had their doors knocked down with parents and kids needing vaccines. Many parents, when faced with having to have their kids home for 21 days, decided to go ahead with the MMR. That was per Dr. Sears in an NPR interview a few weeks ago. Many of the kids were facing not graduating on time if they didn't get the vaccine.
For many of these antivaxers, it boils down to convenience. When faced with having to take off 3 weeks of work, or arrange child care, or see their kids miss out on school activities/graduation.. many, many people decided vaccines weren't so terrible after all.
It scares me more than the flu that I could ever have a nurse like andi78 take care of me someday
"Taking care" would imply she actually PROVIDES care. She always keeps at least 3 feet away from anyone, which means if you're her patient she cannot assess (or insert or d/c) your IV, push meds, change fluids, empty foleys (or insert or d/c one), change dressings, auscultate lung sounds or bowel sounds, palpate an abdomen. No chance of dealing with an NGT, dropping or d/cing one). No ADLs with her, thank you, she is 3 feet away. Says she is a glorified drug pusher, but I imagine 'pushing drugs' that require crushing and mixing in applesauce must be darned tough from a three-foot distance.
Wondering, thererfore, how it is she is an RN on a MED-SURG floor, no less, and manages to avoid the above?
"Taking care" would imply she actually PROVIDES care. She always keeps at least 3 feet away from anyone, which means if you're her patient she cannot assess (or insert or d/c) your IV, push meds, change fluids, empty foleys (or insert or d/c one), change dressings, auscultate lung sounds or bowel sounds, palpate an abdomen. No chance of dealing with an NGT, dropping or d/cing one). No ADLs with her, thank you, she is 3 feet away. Says she is a glorified drug pusher, but I imagine 'pushing drugs' that require crushing and mixing in applesauce must be darned tough from a three-foot distance.
Wondering, thererfore, how it is she is an RN on a MED-SURG floor, no less, and manages to avoid the above?
Well, she did say when a patient with a known infectious disease is on her unit, she wears a mask. Of course, MOST of us know that with many infectious diseases, they (and we as caregivers) can be contagious BEFORE we show symptoms.
And I'm not anti-vax...but I support freedom of choice.
Yes, that' exactly why (DISCLAIMER: I am being very facetious. As a result, please do not take that facetious response seriously). This isn't an issue about someone's freedom, it's a HEALTH issue. Putting your un-vaccinated child in public places such as theme parks and shopping malls would put them at risk for contracting the diseases they aren't vaccinated against (Dtap, Polio, HiB, etc), ESPECIALLY if they step on a rusted nail. You want to talk about choices? Sure let's discuss that (Hey, I support freedom of choice too! Like OMG!). Let's say a mother CHOOSES not to vaccinate her child. That child is 5 now, and caught measles, but became immune to it. However, the 8 month old he came in contact with has measles and couldn't get it between her birth and now because that 8 month old is not supposed to get the vaccine until he/she is 12 months old. The moral of the story is that if you put an un-vaccinated child in the public, that child is not just putting him/herself at risk, but others as well, especially infants. I could go on and on if I want to, but I'm just going to leave it here. We all have the freedom to choose, but we don't have the freedom to control the consequences that come with those choices.
These Anti-vaxxers are always so vocal against the vaccines and always reiterate the same message when countered with evidence based facts and studies yet when something like this measles outbreak occurs, they're quietly lining up at their GPs office..
I've been pondering what 'inspires' anti-vaxxers, and how it is that their opinions become almost like a belief system, an ideology. I've not done a study mind you, but when you read the posts here by anti-vaxxers, most of the posts include 'anti-' modern medicine ideas, and go quite heavy with the GMO OMG!! and how much formaldehyde is in whatever. It's like they are on a crusade. The folks on TV with these opinions look like they are preachin' it sometimes. If you turned off the sound and put them behind a pulpit you'd think they were a pastor begging his flock to repent. I mean no offense to people who love and admire their pastors, of course. I'm speaking to the pressure behind their 'revelations' -- and especially how impossible it is to discuss objective evidence with them EVEN when they agree with it.
It's like that kind of 'religious' sensibility ain't just in 'religion'. You can have any old idea and if you love it and need it enough, you'll be preachin' it.
There was no religion per se behind many historical atrocities/genocides, but they ACT as if their ideology was 'sacred', and possessing this knowledge puts them above reproach. Think North Korea. I watched a docu about several eye doctors that were eventually allowed in to perform cataract surgeries several years ago. Most of the cataracts were due to poor nutrition, or untreated injuries, conditions imposed on them by their Dear Leader. Anyway, at the end of the docu it showed several hundred people in a building with a giant pic of Kim Jong-il on one wall. All the newly sighted people were praising Kim, openly weeping in their gratitude for HIM healing them (while the eye doctors sat in the back looking a bit miffed). Apparently Kim Jong-il, in spite of his godless regime, is capable of performing miracles. The 'ideology' driving him in North Korea isn't religious at all. So what is this . . . thing, this 'religious' kind of thinking that grabs hold of people?
Anti-vaxxers aren't stupid, bad or criminals. They love their children, go to work, have friends and family like the rest of us. I can't figure out what GRABS people by the throat and has them practically worshipping certain ideas or 'anti modern medicine' ideas, or that the doctors and government and Big Pharma are ALL out to 'git us'. How does a person come to believe something so strongly it is an offense to even question them?
klone, MSN, RN
14,857 Posts
The rate of encephalitis as a complication of measles is about 1 in 1,000, so I doubt "several" will be hospitalized for encephalitis. Pneumonia is 1 in 20, but most cases of pneumonia would not require a PICU stay.