We were discussing the Disneryland measles outbreak at work, and I was appalled to find some of my co-workers refuse to vaccinate their kids. They (grudgingly) receive the vaccines they need to remain employed, but doubt their safety/necessity for their kids.
I must say, I am absolutley stunned. How can one be a nurse and deny science?
As a nurse, you should darn well know what the scientific method entails and what phrases such as "evidence based" and "peer reviewed" mean.
I have to say, I have lost most of my respect for the nurses and mistrust their judgement; after all, if they deny science, on what premise are they basing their practices?
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
What's your point? That IS an accreditation... even if it's not one you particularly like. It's still approved by the BON. The classes are still taught by RNs. I still have to learn the material and pass the NCLEX. I will still have over 600 clinical hours. I can still continue on and get my BSN and go wherever else I want to go from there.
That is not the case. Many heath systems, including the one I work for, will not hire nurses whose basic RN education was not obtained at an NLN or CCNE accredited school, regardless of where they get their subsequent degrees. The same is true for the largest health care system in the USA, the VA.
Reading a few of the post here about mothers concerned about neurotoxins in vaccines causing autism.
It is just sad with the obvious lack of research done.
My son was diagnosed with autism 12 years ago at the height of Ms McCarthys campaign of "green vaccines"
I did the research (this was before I was a nurse) and was able to conclude that vaccines were not linked to my sons autism.
I read the Wakefield paper when it was released when I wasn't yet a nurse and still was able to see that it was flawed.
So it is very concerning that nurses and nursing students who should be taught to look at the evidence based research are still not seeing that correlation doesn't equal causation.
I remember when he was diagnosed being angry and looking to blame someone or something, as are most parents when they get that diagnosis.
But to continue to see that fear of autism vs vaccine still happening even in the nursing community is just sad.
To the anti-vaccines what other injuries are you concerned about? I keep seeing people state they are worried about vaccine injury? Please tell me what other injury are you concerned about?
It was proven there is no link between vaccines and autism?
Just my 2 cents I would take my son autism and all vs having him dead,from a preventable disease.
I really think people need to see what could happen when they don't vaccinate. My facility we currently have at last count 2 older kids in PICU on vents due to complications from a vaccine preventable illness, not to mention seeing babies with whooping cough, should be enough to make someone want to protect their children.
It is easy to say "I only worry about my children" when you don't work in the peds population and you don't see every day the damage that Wakefield and McCarthy have done with their anti-vaccine movement.
What's your point? That IS an accreditation... even if it's not one you particularly like. It's still approved by the BON. The classes are still taught by RNs. I still have to learn the material and pass the NCLEX. I will still have over 600 clinical hours. I can still continue on and get my BSN and go wherever else I want to go from there. Like I said, it is what you make of it, just like everything else in life. The BON obviously has no problems with the program, so your opinion of it means very little to me QUOTE]
Hate to break it you, but It DOES matter. This has nothing to do with whether or not anyone "likes" the accreditation(or lack there of) of your school
..attending an accredited school gives you more professional and educational
mobility. When you apply for jobs, employers look for the school you attended.
It is only beneficial for you if they see you have received your diploma,
certificate or degree from an accredited nursing educational institution. And as
you advance in your career, and you decide to return to school, other
educational programs will also look more favorably on a certificate or degree
from an accredited school.
I get the disctinct sense that you did not research very much about what being a nurse really entails, the knowledge and acadmeic skills (such as research) one must possess
Let alone what school is worth the time to attend
If it seems we are being hard on you, it is because you will, in theroy you will be one of our peers one day
And we (nurses) MUST hold each other to high standards
When we do not, patients do NOT recieve the best outcomes
The fact that you think it is fine for your children to harm others who are not able to vaccinated for whatever reason is a huge red flag for me as to whether you are choosing the right profession
My child's status will be the cause of nothing... Disease exists... that's the reality of life on this planet. Of course I'm not comfortable with the death of someone's child, but it is IN NO WAY MY FAULT if a child contracts a disease. I am not willing to sacrifice the wellness of MY children for yours. That's not selfishness, that's common sense from an evolutionary standpoint. I'm sorry if that offends you, but I have the right to put the interest of my children above that of others. So do you. If you feel that vaccines are the best choice for your kids, then by all means, vaccinate away. I disagree and will do what is best for MY children because I AM THEIR MOTHER AND THEY ARE MY RESPONSIBILITY.
OK wow. I was just eating popcorn but now I'm jumping in. It would COMPLETELY be YOUR FAULT if a child died because YOU chose not to vaccinate your kids. Simply because if you had vaccinated, then your child would not have been a carrier, and subsequently they would not have contracted the disease and died. If you fail to acknowledge this simple cause and effect because you want to lessen your guilt so be it but let's be honest about it.
I was until recently on the fence, but I did my research, based on evidence and facts not people's opinions, not even that of experts. I did choose to delay or spread out some of the vaccines but my children are on schedule for their vaccines. When I did real research into the current content of vaccines, the likelihood of adverse effects, most of my fears were quashed. And now with more and more people choosing not to vaccinate, I'm glad I did.
Its plain and simple that your choice in vaccination affects others. And that separates it from an evolutionary standpoint, because it is a CHOICE you made, not something that would have happened under normal circumstances.
Arguing further with aubrienora is wasted effort. She just admitted she's completely comfortable with her child's unvaccinated status causing the death of someone else's child. There's nowhere to go from there.
It's really easy to say, "my heart would be broken but death is part of life," when it's not YOUR CHILD ON THE SLAB IN THE MORGUE.
The selfishness is breathtaking.
I know, right? Would she feel that way if it's her child, 6 feet under? Would she feel that way if another parent's choice is what put her kid 6 feet under? And finally, would she still feel like vaccines are worse than disease if it was a vaccine preventable disease that killed her kid? Would she still have the flippant, """people die" attitude?
Specializes in Nurse Leader specializing in Labor & Delivery.
What's your point? That IS an accreditation... even if it's not one you particularly like.
It's not a matter of liking/not liking. The accreditation that ITT has is not recognized by other nursing schools or hospitals as a NURSING SCHOOL accreditation. That's an important distinction when trying to matriculate to a BSN program or get hired at any place that requires "degree from an accredited nursing school". The accreditation they offer is not a nursing school accreditation, so it's tatamount to no accreditation at all.
What's your point? That IS an accreditation... even if it's not one you particularly like. It's still approved by the BON. The classes are still taught by RNs. I still have to learn the material and pass the NCLEX. I will still have over 600 clinical hours. I can still continue on and get my BSN and go wherever else I want to go from there. Like I said, it is what you make of it, just like everything else in life. The BON obviously has no problems with the program, so your opinion of it means very little to me QUOTE]
Hate to break it you, but It DOES matter. This has nothing to do with whether or not anyone "likes" the accreditation(or lack there of) of your school
..attending an accredited school gives you more professional and educational
mobility. When you apply for jobs, employers look for the school you attended.
It is only beneficial for you if they see you have received your diploma,
certificate or degree from an accredited nursing educational institution. And as
you advance in your career, and you decide to return to school, other
educational programs will also look more favorably on a certificate or degree
from an accredited school.
I get the disctinct sense that you did not research very much about what being a nurse really entails, the knowledge and acadmeic skills (such as research) one must possess
Let alone what school is worth the time to attend
If it seems we are being hard on you, it is because you will, in theroy you will be one of our peers one day
And we (nurses) MUST hold each other to high standards
When we do not, patients do NOT recieve the best outcomes
The fact that you think it is fine for your children to harm others who are not able to vaccinated for whatever reason is a huge red flag for me as to whether you are choosing the right profession
Believe it or not, your opinion of me as a nurse and/or person means very little. I know who I am and I know what kind of of nurse I will be. I think about things differently than most people. I always have and probably always will. This is not the only debate where I am the voice of dissent. I figured out a long time ago that I need to be true to myself and stick to what I believe is right.
This school was the right choice for me whether you all like it or not. Again, not everyone's life circumstances are the same. Not everyone is an 18 year old kid fresh out of high school with no responsibility and nothing but time. I needed to be through school and working yesterday. To my knowledge, every place that hires ADNs in this valley hires ITT grads. I've also already identified the BSN program I will most likely attend that certainly will accept my degree (and is regionally and CCNE accredited, for those of you worried). Thanks for your concern about my future.
I'm honestly surprised and a bit disappointed that this conversation has come to this. Since any usefulness this conversation may have had is clearly gone, I'm done here. Good luck to you all.
To the anti-vaccines what other injuries are you concerned about? I keep seeing people state they are worried about vaccine injury? Please tell me what other injury are you concerned about?
I just found this chart on Refutations to Anti-Vaccine Meme's FB page. Sorry it is big . . .you can use the scroll button along the bottom.
Alternative vaccine schedules are not a good idea. The current vaccination schedule is designed to protect infants against serious diseases as early as possible. Delaying or splitting up vaccinations leaves children, and the general public, unnecessarily vulnerable to serious diseases. The schedules advocated by Dr. Sears are also cumbersome (12 visits over 2 years) and are not supported by science.
Specializes in Med nurse in med-surg., float, HH, and PDN.
aubrienora
Since you signed off of this thread, maybe this is a moot question, but what exactly did you find "useful" about this conversation, other than it was a venue on which you could stubbornly dig in your heels and refute everyone else?
I know, right? Would she feel that way if it's her child, 6 feet under? Would she feel that way if another parent's choice is what put her kid 6 feet under? And finally, would she still feel like vaccines are worse than disease if it was a vaccine preventable disease that killed her kid? Would she still have the flippant, """people die" attitude?
Or if her one unvaccinated child gets a disease and recovers but her next child gets it from her first child and has long term complications or worse.
PMFB-RN, RN
5,351 Posts
That is not the case. Many heath systems, including the one I work for, will not hire nurses whose basic RN education was not obtained at an NLN or CCNE accredited school, regardless of where they get their subsequent degrees. The same is true for the largest health care system in the USA, the VA.