We were discussing the Disneryland measles outbreak at work, and I was appalled to find some of my co-workers refuse to vaccinate their kids. They (grudgingly) receive the vaccines they need to remain employed, but doubt their safety/necessity for their kids.
I must say, I am absolutley stunned. How can one be a nurse and deny science?
As a nurse, you should darn well know what the scientific method entails and what phrases such as "evidence based" and "peer reviewed" mean.
I have to say, I have lost most of my respect for the nurses and mistrust their judgement; after all, if they deny science, on what premise are they basing their practices?
The number of unvaccinated just isn't that high. The risks are still minimal...until we freak out because of the media.
This comment proves that the anti/non-vaxers are completely aware they're riding on the backs of the vaccinated, and perfectly comfortable with doing so. Whatever horrors they perceive about vaccination, they're fine with other people's kids facing them because it protects their own kids from their choices.
Blech doesn't even begin to cover it..... aubrienora at least was very open about this attitude, but if you pick through anti-vax comments enough, it seems you always basically get to that point: only their kids matter and they have no obligation at all, ever, to consider the needs of any other human outside their own families.
I didn't create these diseases. Choosing not to vaccinate my children does not CAUSE naturally occurring diseases. Obviously it doesn't help prevent it, but it doesn't cause it either.
My family name isn't Colt. I never created anything that goes kaboom! This doesn't mean that society doesn't have a reasonable expectation that I behave responsibly around guns.
Just because you didn't personally "create" the diseases doesn't mean that you aren't expected to behave responsibly. Vaccines exist that effectively and drastically lowers the risk of contracting and subsequently spreading a number of possibly fatal diseases. They are proven to carry a lot less risk than the diseases that they protect against. You can't really credibly argue against the statistics behind this statement.
Why don't you spend three minutes of your time and look at posts #262 (page 27) and #331 (p 34) and tell me what, if any, conclusions you draw?
I mentioned in a previous post that measles alone, took over 145.000 lives globally in 2013. That's a huge number. Do you or any other vaccine opposer have any thoughts on that?
Immunization vaccines benefits individuals and society as a whole. Do the responsible thing, it's expected of you.
The number of unvaccinated just isn't that high. The risks are still minimal...until we freak out because of the media.
Statistics is not a universal prerequirement for nursing programs. Frankly, many evidenced based practice courses, for the programs that have them, are sadly little more than a review of middle school statistics and statistical interpretation.
Community/Public Health is a universal requirement for BSN programs, but when epidemiology is covered, it is a brief overview of concepts. I'll put good money up that 5% or less of nurses ever saw even the most basic equations that underpin it. Many equations aren't mathematically complex (modeling them is) just chock full of variables.
My point is this: if you understood the math and science, you'd realize your statement is flat wrong.
The truth is with a highly contagious disease like measles, even in the best of circumstances, even with our highly effective vaccine, we operate in the grey zone maintaining of herd immunity which is why we still have to have some public health measures to combat new outbreaks.
But we aren't in the best of circumstances thanks to the anti-vaxxers. That is why this outbreak has spread to 18 states and Mexico.
I believe we have freedom of choice and giving the government that much power and control is frightening.
You want to talk about freedom and rights, public health measures range from low key to draconian. The lower the vaccination rates, the more intrusive and draconian public health policies have to be brought down to try and stem the tide of an outbreak.
We have hundreds of people on on quarantine or isolation, thousands of interviews and record pulls for contact tracing, testing, outbreak surveillance... most nurses (let alone the public) just haven't been informed about what has to go into public health measures to control an outbreak. These measures are expensive for individuals and society.
And yet it is still in 18 states and Mexico despite these measures! AND IT IS NOT OVER!
Believe it or not, your opinion of me as a nurse and/or person means very little. I know who I am and I know what kind of of nurse I will be.
I'm honestly surprised and a bit disappointed that this conversation has come to this. Since any usefulness this conversation may have had is clearly gone, I'm done here. Good luck to you all.
I'm kind of concerned about a nurse who really doesn't mind risking the lives of others, and happily allows herself and her children to freeload off of the immunity of the children of responsible parents. I'm VERY concerned and disappointed that this soon-to-be nurse wouldn't lose sleep if her choices were directly responsible for the death of another person's child.
If there is one thing that every anti-vax parent believes, it is that she (or he) is educated on the topic of vaccines. She's done her research.†She's read books, websites and message boards that have supplied her with a plethora of information and citations to scientific studies. Give her half a chance and she will overwhelm you with lists of vaccine ingredients, anecdotes of vaccine complications, and bibliography salad of dozens of studies she hasn't read.
Specializes in Med nurse in med-surg., float, HH, and PDN.
When you are an "I-Me-Mine" kind of person (as aubrienora revealed to us that she is) and use that to justify yourself you really don't have a leg to stand on. I understand putting your kids first, but in this case it is to their detriment.
I had written more in this post, but my tone was quite snide so I deleted it.
I wholly agree. Let's all go back to Microbiology I and remember that measles is indeed a virus. Viruses mutate. That is their nature. They adapt, they change and they become stronger in most instances. So the measles that you had when you were a kid is not the same strain. It probably has mutated billions of times and ways by now. It's like the flu vaccine this year. They weren't prepared and the shot that was given was for the strain that had the higher probability of being the most prevalent. That did not end up being the case. Medicine was and never will be an exact science. Strides are made, knowledge is gained but there will always be mysteries. Vaccines and the people that produce them will never be perfect and we all have to start realizing that. The days of asking the Doctor to "fix" things are over. The Doc's aren't mechanics and we aren't built on some assembly line.
I wholly agree. Let's all go back to Microbiology I and remember that measles is indeed a virus. Viruses mutate. That is their nature. They adapt, they change and they become stronger in most instances. So the measles that you had when you were a kid is not the same strain. It probably has mutated billions of times and ways by now. It's like the flu vaccine this year. They weren't prepared and the shot that was given was for the strain that had the higher probability of being the most prevalent. That did not end up being the case. Medicine was and never will be an exact science. Strides are made, knowledge is gained but there will always be mysteries. Vaccines and the people that produce them will never be perfect and we all have to start realizing that. The days of asking the Doctor to "fix" things are over. The Doc's aren't mechanics and we aren't built on some assembly line.
Actually, the measles around now is virtually identical to the measles you were vaccinated for.
Different viruses mutate at varying speeds, and some viruses have many strains, others do not.
Measles is an example of a very stable virus that hasn't changed much this century, and the differences in genotypes do not reflect a difference in vaccine effectiveness; the antigens in the vaccine cover all the genotypes.
Influenza and HIV are examples of viruses that vary widely and mutate quickly, defying the ability to offer universal coverage from one vaccine against all strains.
Specializes in Pediatrics, High-Risk L&D, Antepartum, L.
This comment proves that the anti/non-vaxers are completely aware they're riding on the backs of the vaccinated, and perfectly comfortable with doing so. Whatever horrors they perceive about vaccination, they're fine with other people's kids facing them because it protects their own kids from their choices.
Blech doesn't even begin to cover it..... aubrienora at least was very open about this attitude, but if you pick through anti-vax comments enough, it seems you always basically get to that point: only their kids matter and they have no obligation at all, ever, to consider the needs of any other human outside their own families.
My children are vaccinated...just to clear the air.
That being said...I do believe that nobody owes anyone anything. I think each individual family can be selfish...it is their family first and I'm okay with that. I have no hidden the fact that I don't believe anyone had an obligation to another. So I don't know why you suggest I'm not open about my opinion. I'm very open....always have been and you couldn't see it then that's on you.
Specializes in Pediatrics, High-Risk L&D, Antepartum, L.
Statistics is not a universal prerequirement for nursing programs. Frankly, many evidenced based practice courses, for the programs that have them, are sadly little more than a review of middle school statistics and statistical interpretation.
Community/Public Health is a universal requirement for BSN programs, but when epidemiology is covered, it is a brief overview of concepts. I'll put good money up that 5% or less of nurses ever saw even the most basic equations that underpin it. Many equations aren't mathematically complex (modeling them is) just chock full of variables.
My point is this: if you understood the math and science, you'd realize your statement is flat wrong.
The truth is with a highly contagious disease like measles, even in the best of circumstances, even with our highly effective vaccine, we operate in the grey zone maintaining of herd immunity which is why we still have to have some public health measures to combat new outbreaks.
But we aren't in the best of circumstances thanks to the anti-vaxxers. That is why this outbreak has spread to 18 states and Mexico.
You want to talk about freedom and rights, public health measures range from low key to draconian. The lower the vaccination rates, the more intrusive and draconian public health policies have to be brought down to try and stem the tide of an outbreak.
We have hundreds of people on on quarantine or isolation, thousands of interviews and record pulls for contact tracing, testing, outbreak surveillance... most nurses (let alone the public) just haven't been informed about what has to go into public health measures to control an outbreak. These measures are expensive for individuals and society.
And yet it is still in 18 states and Mexico despite these measures! AND IT IS NOT OVER!
I have taken statistics. Thanks for trying to attempt to insult. Didn't work. Levels are still low...yes we are having an outbreak and the likely cause already discussed. It's still a relatively small risk. You are not more intelligent because you make assumptions about programs or educational levels.
Spidey's mom, ADN, BSN, RN
11,305 Posts
The money behind the vaccine skeptics - Video - Business News
Money . . . in the anti-vaccine movement? Nah . .. .they are only motivated by compassion.