We were discussing the Disneryland measles outbreak at work, and I was appalled to find some of my co-workers refuse to vaccinate their kids. They (grudgingly) receive the vaccines they need to remain employed, but doubt their safety/necessity for their kids.
I must say, I am absolutley stunned. How can one be a nurse and deny science?
As a nurse, you should darn well know what the scientific method entails and what phrases such as "evidence based" and "peer reviewed" mean.
I have to say, I have lost most of my respect for the nurses and mistrust their judgement; after all, if they deny science, on what premise are they basing their practices?
If you can't make your point without using negatives words, your argument is invalid.
Screaming that people don't vaccinate out of fear and then following your sentence with fear of unvaccinated children.
Why are fully vaccinated humans contracting 'preventable' diseases?
Preach your protection and science, when science shows you that vaccines decrease the likelihood of infection or severity of symptoms. Science does not show you that you are 100% immune to diseases or that you are fully protected.
Children that are not immunized are just dirty, filthy, disease infested monsters?
Vaccines are great. Vaccines work. Why are so many people scared of non-vaxed people?
If you can't make your point without using negatives words, your argument is invalid.
Screaming that people don't vaccinate out of fear and then following your sentence with fear of unvaccinated children.
Why are fully vaccinated humans contracting 'preventable' diseases?
Preach your protection and science, when science shows you that vaccines decrease the likelihood of infection or severity of symptoms. Science does not show you that you are 100% immune to diseases or that you are fully protected.
Children that are not immunized are just dirty, filthy, disease infested monsters?
Vaccines are great. Vaccines work. Why are so many people scared of non-vaxed people?
I'm not sure how the debate is circular . . . .
Which negative words?
Who is screaming?
Nothing in life is 100%. But the odds are between 95-97% with the first MMR and then up to 99% with the second MMR that you will not get those diseases (especially measles).
Those are great odds for winning the lottery or going to Vegas.
Why in the world are those numbers not considered great odds for keeping people from getting diseases?
A small % of immunized folks can still get the disease. That is no reason not to immunize.
Of course I'm not comfortable with the death of someone's child, but it is IN NO WAY MY FAULT if a child contracts a disease.
I don't understand how you've managed to convince yourself of this. If you choose to not have your children vaccinated and they are infected with a vaccine-preventable disease and go on and infect a child who's been unable to get the vaccine themselves due to age or immune status, how on earth are you not responsible?
Disease exists... that's the reality of life on this planet.
Well, disease exists a whole lot more when people won't protect themselves and others with available vaccines.
What kind of nurse do you plan on becoming? Will you advise your patients that smoking is detrimental to their health and that it increases the risk for many diseases/conditions? Or will you just assume that disease will happen regardless.
How about a healthy diet and exercise? Again, these are things that are beneficial to our health. Should we tell our patients this or should we shrug our collective shoulders and say "disease exists"?
I am not willing to sacrifice the wellness of MY children for yours.
If you actually take the time and review/compare the risks of childhood immunization vaccines and the risks of the diseases they protect a child from, you'll see that the choice you've made is actually the one that puts your children at greater risk. You are risking their wellness. I don't don't say this with any malicious intent, I wish you'd see the (scientific) light and change your mind on this issue. Your children deserve to be protected just as every single child does.
You say that you've reviewed the available evidence on this issue and yet you've somehow managed to conclude that immunization vaccines aren't in your children's best interest. This is extremely hard to understand. Since you seem eager that everyone consider both sides of the issue, are you willing to post the actual research/data/references/sources in this thread, that has convinced you that immunization vaccines carry a greater risk than the diseases they protect against?
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
It's a shame that there needs to be a law to force parents to stop neglecting their children's health care and do the best thing for their children. Obviously we do as we have seen from this discussion. Hopefully this bill will pass and other states will follow suit.
A group of state lawmakers announced legislation Wednesday that would abolish an exemption from the mandate that children get vaccinated before they enter school if it conflicts with their parents' personal beliefs.
Vaccines are great. Vaccines work. Why are so many people scared of non-vaxed people?
Well, for one, because millions of children under the age of 12 months who have not been able to be vaccinated against all these diseases become even more vulnerable when eligible individuals decline vaccines and subsequently expose them to illness. Herd immunity is the defense for vulnerable individuals such as infants, the immunocompromised, those who are allergic to components of vaccines, the 3-6% of vaccinated individuals who don't seroconvert, etc. The more people who refuse vaccines, the more likely that herd immunity is compromised.
It's a shame that there needs to be a law to force parents to stop neglecting their children's health care and do the best thing for their children. Obviously we do as we have seen from this discussion. Hopefully this bill will pass and other states will follow suit.
Compulsory vs. mandatory . . . . .a year ago a law went into effect that stated parents couldn't just sign an exemption anymore. They had to make an appointment with a medical provider and have that provider explain all the risks and benefits of the vaccine and the fact that IF there was a measles case (or other disease covered by the vaccines) then their unvaccinated student would have to leave school for 21 days (transmission period of virus).
Just came across an article that talks about how many docs are going about that conversation the wrong way:
Tell me your thoughts about those who choose not to get their children vaccinated.
One of the things I take as valid health criticism, as my daughter, a psychologist, has pointed out, is that we in the medical profession have not done a good job of discussing or explaining this to our patients. She developed an idea that people have different preferred cognitive styles and decision-making behaviors and that what we need to do is not stick only to the highly analytic cognitive style of a physician – all about the facts and data and numbers – but to determine the cognitive style of the patient in the front of us. Then it's incumbent upon us to best meet the cognitive styles of the patient. I think we have erred in not doing that.
I don't think my patients who reject vaccines are nuts. They have come to conclusion – I believe their conclusion is in error – but they have come to a conclusion that the vaccine is not good. I've yet to meet a parent who doesn't want to do the very best for their child, including vaccines. What I try to do now is that I then try to determine the style they use to make decisions under uncertainty, and that often means I have to establish a rapport or relationship with that patient before they will consider getting a vaccine. Or they may decide never to, but I often view my role as a physician as a patient advisor, and I try to give them the best information we know and have. If they make a choice that I think is adverse to that, I will let them know.
If you can't make your point without using negatives words, your argument is invalid.
Screaming that people don't vaccinate out of fear and then following your sentence with fear of unvaccinated children.
Why are fully vaccinated humans contracting 'preventable' diseases?
Preach your protection and science, when science shows you that vaccines decrease the likelihood of infection or severity of symptoms. Science does not show you that you are 100% immune to diseases or that you are fully protected.
Children that are not immunized are just dirty, filthy, disease infested monsters?
Vaccines are great. Vaccines work. Why are so many people scared of non-vaxed people?
Vaccines are not 100% effective but that doesn't mean they 0% effectiveness either...my son had two doses of varicella vaccine (99% effective) my daughter had one dose (80% effective) and they both caught chicken pox from somewhere. My son had two, just TWO pox on him. My daughter had a few on her lower body. Thank god they had their vaccine or their cases would've been much worse. If you knew anything about vaccines you would know that the science behind it doesn't say "once your vaccinated, no worries!" The science is that we need everyone that possibly can get vaccinated to actually DO SO to keep these diseases from occurring.
Specializes in Nurse Leader specializing in Labor & Delivery.
Why do you feel this way? Obviously people are passionate, especially when it involves kids. But here you have good people like BostonFNP posting objective, data-driven rationale, so it seems like this discussion board is a great place to talk about opposing views. You've been here a long time so I would think that one of the reasons you stay is the quality of the community here.
I jest, I jest.
Seriously, I meant that as a light-hearted comment.
Spidey's mom, ADN, BSN, RN
11,305 Posts
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