Abuse Accusations

[Jess0418]

I was at work a couple evenings ago and had a resident continue to ask for toilet paper, which is a common behavior for her.  I went into her room and saw that she had a full roll and I advised her that she had enough for the evening and that once I found someone in housekeeping (they keep the toilet paper locked up) that I would get her more. She continued to argue that she needed more right now and I kept explaining that I was unable to get her more right now.  She began to literally scream that she wanted more toilet paper and was making a huge scene in the hallway.  
I charted on the behavior and was very detailed in it, making sure I stated that I went to her room to ensure that she had enough toilet paper, and that I assured her that I would get her more once I saw someone from housekeeping.  I stated in my charting that she was yelling and that since we could not get her to calm down using reassurance, we began to ignore the BEHAVIOR (not her).  

I was told by my DON and administrator that they have to turn that in for potential abuse, and now I am absolutely freaking out that I’m going to lose my license.  Has anyone ever had to deal with anything like this?  I’m in Illinois.  I’ve only been a nurse for 2 years. I really hope I didn’t just ruin my career 

[FlorentineRN]

How could it possibly happen that you are being treated in this horrible manner. I know it is expensive, but I think an attorney familiar with these manners is really needed to get some sanity in he door.
 I’m sad this happened to you.

[Jess0418]

20 hours ago, summertx said:

I would contact a lawyer. I wouldn't call the state or the board with this matter. If your DON/administrator  contact the state, be prepared for  the agent to contact you if they investigate. Since abuse can be he said/she said and with a dementia and/or psychotic patient, a lawyer seems to be your best option. 

I hired an attorney yesterday.  She says if what I’m saying is exactly what I put down on the chart (which it is) there should be no reason I would lose my license over this.  

19 hours ago, Davey Do said:

I was also suspended, with pay, back in '98 for insubordination, while employed at a community mental health facility.

Basically, I felt harassed by two supervisors during a meeting.  I stated, "I can't take this right now". One of the supervisors said, "You will take this right now!" I got up and walked out.

I was informed shortly thereafter that I was suspended with pay until further notice. I asked, "With pay?!" and when that fact was affirmed, I said, "I'm outta here!"

I did seek the advice from an in-law who was a lawyer. My presence was requested at a meeting with the assistant administrator of the facility, and I asked the lawyer if I should attend. He advised me to attend the meeting, say as little as possible, and take notes.

One interesting statement the admin said during the meeting, while I was taking notes, was, "...and you can also tell your lawyer..."

All's well that ends well, as I received full pay and benefits during my eight-working day suspension. I was also given a new position in the facility, of which I had previously applied, under a different supervisor.

In the problem-solving process, the second step is to gather data. If we learn what the opposition has in mind, it better prepares us for dealing with the situation. The unknown can be terrifying, as it leaves us to our imagination for what will come.

I again respectfully disagree with the avoidance technique. If we gather data, thereby a feeling of power, we can more comfortably deal with any situation more lucratively. However, we need to avoid giving any subjective information, just the objective facts. That is one reason why I suggested writing everything about the incident down- to be better prepared for what will come.

I am currently writing my narrative and am going to send a copy to my attorney 

[Jess0418]

9 hours ago, JKL33 said:

Can't give official advice, either. But I am 99.9999% sure that I would be finding a different place to work unless this place was my only option for not being homeless.

Pardon my language but in my book this is a 'F around and find out' situation. These people do know that this is not abuse, it is not the kind of scenario where a patient needs to be protected from someone, no one is in danger because of this falsely accused nurse. Them reporting this is not covering their hiney on a single freaking thing, because there IS nothing here.

Well, I just won't be toyed with like that. I would be out of there. With proper timing of course. Like after I was cleared.

Sorry this is happening. Hang in there.

I agree.  I definitely will not be back.  I believe it was a personal attack, as I was the only one suspended and there were 2 CNAs also involved. The previous administrator (who got demoted to HR) does not like me because I spoke my mind to her and told her how unsafe it was for us to be working one nurse and one CNA to 35-40 residents, and how she needed to try harder to get more staff in before the doors were shut on her.  I wasn’t wrong.  I was looking out for the residents safety, as they were not being treated well considering there was no one there to take care of them.  
so I definitely feel this is personal.  But I am very glad I charted that we ignored the “behavior” and not the “resident”.  And it should be in this residents Care Plan that she hoards toilet paper.  

[summertx]

15 hours ago, Jess0418 said:

I hired an attorney yesterday.  She says if what I’m saying is exactly what I put down on the chart (which it is) there should be no reason I would lose my license over this.   

I would have done this exact thing, and almost have been pushed  to. 

[vintagegal, BSN, DNP, RN, NP]

When you start feeling uncomfortable at your place of employment…. LEAVE. Before poop hits the fan. If you can’t trust your management team, you become the fall guy. This whole thing is ridiculous, unless you threatened the patient or withheld something (food, water, meds) I don’t see this constituting abuse. 

[londonflo]

On 1/10/2022 at 12:38 PM, Davey Do said:

If we gather data, thereby a feeling of power, we can more comfortably deal with any situation more lucratively.

Davey Do, I learn so much from you. Please keep giving us your 'pearls of wisdom.'  You dealt with such 'crappy' situations and through your determination, knowledge and attitude you navigated the system and made life better for patients and nurses . 

For the OP, I am not sure 'toilet paper hoarding' is so bad. So many did it when Covid hit. Relax, NEVER IGNORE, and have some empathy. (May be the family could bring in wipes or more 'comfortable' toilet paper?). You and I know hospital toilet paper has no absorbent qualities.  Decide which battle you want to face. 

[sideshowstarlet, BSN, RN]

8 hours ago, londonflo said:

Davey Do, I learn so much from you. Please keep giving us your 'pearls of wisdom.'  You dealt with such 'crappy' situations and through your determination, knowledge and attitude you navigated the system and made life better for patients and nurses . 

For the OP, I am not sure 'toilet paper hoarding' is so bad. So many did it when Covid hit. Relax, NEVER IGNORE, and have some empathy. (May be the family could bring in wipes or more 'comfortable' toilet paper?). You and I know hospital toilet paper has no absorbent qualities.  Decide which battle you want to face. 

Honestly, if it was so important that this patient have an unlimited supply of toilet paper on demand, why was the facility making it so inconvenient to access?

I get there was hoarding happening during Covid, but I worked SNF long before Covid on the night shift. For some reason, things like extra toilet paper and paper towels were locked up, and only housekeeping (who only worked days) had the keys.

In your case, if your facility was so adamant about the resident having enough toilet tissue to wallpaper her entire room with, along with creating mummy costumes for her seventeen grandchildren to wear next Halloween (making sure she makes them big enough for the kids to grow into them in the meantime, as well as having enough to tear off to adequately TP the neighbors), why not have the embittered HR rep stuff a few extra rolls at the nurse's station, in the med room, heck, give to the charge nurse to keep at the med cart? 

I could tolerate the "Customer Service" mentality, but not when it's combined with a facility and its administrators running things in a way that makes it harder to get things to patients. 

On the other hand, it's good to hear that Rita Weasle (from Davey Do's final Wrongway anecdote) landed on her feet. 

[canoehead, BSN, RN]

I wanted to chime in and say I thought you handled the situation well. 

If her family could bring in extra TP so she can hoard as much as she wants, why not? I know you couldn't get any. Maybe bargain with her how much extra (three rolls?) she wants available, and stick to that limit consistently. It seems like a cheap way to make her happy. The facility is being unreasonable.

[Leader25, ASN, BSN, RN]

I would plan  my eventual exit,once they make you their "fall guy",ever little thing will be pointed at you,you the big suspect.Hope you have better luck elsewhere 

[kbrn2002, ADN, RN]

A similar thing was happening at the SNF I used to work for. Nurses starting getting write-ups for the most ridiculous things from a previously supportive DON.  A few really good nurses left over it.  I stuck around until until I was also threatened with a write-up. Then they lost another good nurse, me. 

What your facility did to you goes well beyond a silly internal write-up.  By reporting this to the state they not only put your job but your career in jeopardy. Granted the odds of the complaint getting anywhere with the state are slim at best considering the situation in no way rises to the level of abuse plus you were wise and retained an attorney. 

After this no way no how would I trust working for these people. Good thing is  every place is pretty much short staffed so finding another job shouldn't be a problem.  

[CrunchRN, ADN, RN]

It is crazy that they would report this.

[Davey Do]

12 hours ago, sideshowstarlet said:

Honestly, if it was so important that this patient have an unlimited supply of toilet paper on demand, why was the facility making it so inconvenient to access?

In all fairness, sideshowstarlet, toilet paper can be a safety hazard.

No kidding.

A few years back, at Wrongway, a therapist had one of her clients admitted to psych because the client actually wrapped toilet paper around their neck and said they were going to hang themselves.

I apologize for the graphic imagery, but hey- we all are adults and we're professionals.